Listen now | In this episode, Simone and Malcolm discuss the intricacies and lived experiences of the polyamorous community, using ALA's blog post as a case study.
Go back and listen from the 19 minute mark where Malcolm equates "chatting with AI, playing an adventure game, and drinking and watching anime" with so-called "higher order thinking". That's right after he claims he's not as productive as Simone. He says he would be "so disappointed" if Simone "wasted her time" sitting on a couch and reading a book or socializing with people. Yet him sitting about "chatting with AI, playing an adventure game, and drinking and watching anime" while she works and engages in productivity is not a disappointment to her? And the claim that this is somehow "higher order thinking" and "bettering humanity" also being thrown in there? Then a few minutes later at around 22 minute mark he reads Aella as saying, she knows a poly couple with 3 kids who "haven't really done much dating recently because they are TOO DISTRACTED with their kids".
So the kids are a distraction from living their best poly life instead of poly life being seen as the distraction away from their kids. It says a lot about this values system.
@simonehcollins Re: Timestamp 1:08:39 LOL, I see both of your points. While yes, Malcolm has shown this is possible, Simone raised an exceptionally good point, that being how smell is extremely critical to women in mating, not the least of which is to ensure good combinations of immune systems and avoid close incest (and yes, those have very strong overlap, and thus the merged functionality). Thus, this is not a question of *if* AI would be able to simulate smells, but *how* AI would properly match this real world functionality while not causing (primarily women, since they take on the function of strategically--as opposed to opportunistically--selecting which males reproduce, and just as critically, with whom) to become improperly exposed to the--now, say it with me--combinatorial complexity of conditions that have evolved and occur naturally. This has further complications and implications when you consider how the sense of smell is, to the best of our current understanding, a sense of molecular vibration, since complex polymer chains with the exact same surface features, and only very minor differences buried deep within the knotted chain, can produce vastly different smells. Currently, we struggle just to categorize, much less encode this sensory input, and thus the confusion to those not attuned to various sensations, e.g. cross genders and species.
Interesting. There's this "white people smell bad" thing and then the "meat eaters smell putrid" thing and then there's this "why do Arab men smell so good" thing (even though they are meat-eaters too, but less so if they are observant Orthodox/Oriental-O Christians due to all the fasting). Arab men are known for wearing various colognes and oils since ancient times but it's the way those mix with their innate body chemistry that creates the aroma euphoria.
No Malcolm, the "statistics" DO NOT show that more women than not like to be strangled during sex. You can't pull up an incredibly micro, niche sample size from Aella's online "polls" and call that "the statistics". Even she says her niche micro polls cannot be extrapolated to the wider society (even in California), forget about the wider world. Please just stop with that. Your anecdotes about "guys you know" saying they "hate it" but relunctantly do it because "women demand it" are just that - personal anecdotes.
Meanwhile there are women consistently reporting that initial sexual encounters with men in today's dating world are repeatedly producing shock strangulations that appear out of nowhere with no prior warning or discussion, forget about consent.
Teen girls are reporting going in for their very first kiss ever and being strangled.
As a father of daughters this should have you very concerned.
You do realize Aella normalizes her data against random samples as well? This isn't some skewed sample.
I have: Aella's data, my experiences from sleeping around, our data (from writing the pragmatists guide to sexuality), and the ability to walk through a barns and nobel and see the number of monster fer books. I don't have a single peice of evidence I can find that would push me in another direction.
All those data sets are too small to make sweeping generalizations about the majority of women all over the world, and you know it. Just because you want something to be true doesn't make it true. "Monster fer books" --- I have no idea what that is but reading novels doesn't equal causation.
I don't think Aella is an accurate example of a "typical" poly person. She is a sex worker afterall. She has made poly into a money-making career. And she is into extreme BDSM and fetish. The vast majority of poly people are not doing either of those things. Sex doesn't define their entire existence. Reading Aella makes it sound as if poly is all about sex, sex, sex and nothing else. If I were poly I'd be pretty pissed that she is putting herself forward as the "face of poly". It gives poly a bad look.
But then I suppose ordinary poly people don't want to be the face of anything. They are just regular folk going about their normal lives in a usual quiet way.
Something else to note is the whole Andrew Huberman fiasco that got exposed last year. Think about it... Dude lives in the same city as Aella. According to her SF is a poly paradise and even non poly people are so used to poly proliferating the area that absolutely no one bats an eye when one of their friends, colleagues or family members goes poly. OK. And yet Andrew instead chose to mislead multiple women into thinking he was monogamous toward them while cheating on all of them at the same time. Not just that, he consciously CHOSE to give one of them an STD that has a high risk of cancer and fatality. Afterall, he was in a "committed monogamous relationship" with only her and told her multiple times that he wanted a child with her, so why wear condoms, right? AND THIS GUY IS A DOCTOR!!! A world reknowned "health" podcaster!!!!
Why, just why? Why all the lying, cheating, secrets, sneaking around, complicated logistics, stress, anxiety, heartache, pain, disease and possible death, when all he had to do was tell these women he was poly? Make it make sense.
PS: Choking is when you get food stuck in your throat. What you are talking about here is strangulation which is simulated murder (what legally would be categorized as attempted murder).
@simonehcollins FYI: Off the top of my head (i.e. any errors are mine): Simone was raised in the Bay area. Malcolm went to Stanford. They travel professionally and socially (which is actually more like addition professional outreach for their non-profits) attending, or even hosting, various networking events like conferences, house parties, etc. They have a wide range of utility friends, high level clients, and other connections who they won't name regardless of status, due to much of their work, research, reporting, etc. requiring amenity/confidentiality (which as someone who has done University and clinical research as well as business and career turn around consulting, I totally understand). So, while their source datasets are varied and not publicly available, they are functioning as subject matter experts and/or professional researchers (Malcolm worked for the Smithsonian and some of his research their is still leading edge), all of their work is designed to be replicable/reproductive and falsifiable or at least verified through additional research/testing and challenged in that way. Also, they are actively canvassing for data, testable hypothesis, etc. To throw against their current theory sets. Thus they have developed praxologies, cultural practices, their own certified religion, and have made fundamental contributions to education and sustainable policies and procedures. Both are actively involved in politics with established but constantly evolving positions on many issues. Simone has run for office and, if my memory serves me correctly, Malcolm has participated in formal debates.
Go back and listen from the 19 minute mark where Malcolm equates "chatting with AI, playing an adventure game, and drinking and watching anime" with so-called "higher order thinking". That's right after he claims he's not as productive as Simone. He says he would be "so disappointed" if Simone "wasted her time" sitting on a couch and reading a book or socializing with people. Yet him sitting about "chatting with AI, playing an adventure game, and drinking and watching anime" while she works and engages in productivity is not a disappointment to her? And the claim that this is somehow "higher order thinking" and "bettering humanity" also being thrown in there? Then a few minutes later at around 22 minute mark he reads Aella as saying, she knows a poly couple with 3 kids who "haven't really done much dating recently because they are TOO DISTRACTED with their kids".
So the kids are a distraction from living their best poly life instead of poly life being seen as the distraction away from their kids. It says a lot about this values system.
@simonehcollins Re: Timestamp 1:08:39 LOL, I see both of your points. While yes, Malcolm has shown this is possible, Simone raised an exceptionally good point, that being how smell is extremely critical to women in mating, not the least of which is to ensure good combinations of immune systems and avoid close incest (and yes, those have very strong overlap, and thus the merged functionality). Thus, this is not a question of *if* AI would be able to simulate smells, but *how* AI would properly match this real world functionality while not causing (primarily women, since they take on the function of strategically--as opposed to opportunistically--selecting which males reproduce, and just as critically, with whom) to become improperly exposed to the--now, say it with me--combinatorial complexity of conditions that have evolved and occur naturally. This has further complications and implications when you consider how the sense of smell is, to the best of our current understanding, a sense of molecular vibration, since complex polymer chains with the exact same surface features, and only very minor differences buried deep within the knotted chain, can produce vastly different smells. Currently, we struggle just to categorize, much less encode this sensory input, and thus the confusion to those not attuned to various sensations, e.g. cross genders and species.
Interesting. There's this "white people smell bad" thing and then the "meat eaters smell putrid" thing and then there's this "why do Arab men smell so good" thing (even though they are meat-eaters too, but less so if they are observant Orthodox/Oriental-O Christians due to all the fasting). Arab men are known for wearing various colognes and oils since ancient times but it's the way those mix with their innate body chemistry that creates the aroma euphoria.
No Malcolm, the "statistics" DO NOT show that more women than not like to be strangled during sex. You can't pull up an incredibly micro, niche sample size from Aella's online "polls" and call that "the statistics". Even she says her niche micro polls cannot be extrapolated to the wider society (even in California), forget about the wider world. Please just stop with that. Your anecdotes about "guys you know" saying they "hate it" but relunctantly do it because "women demand it" are just that - personal anecdotes.
Meanwhile there are women consistently reporting that initial sexual encounters with men in today's dating world are repeatedly producing shock strangulations that appear out of nowhere with no prior warning or discussion, forget about consent.
Teen girls are reporting going in for their very first kiss ever and being strangled.
As a father of daughters this should have you very concerned.
You do realize Aella normalizes her data against random samples as well? This isn't some skewed sample.
I have: Aella's data, my experiences from sleeping around, our data (from writing the pragmatists guide to sexuality), and the ability to walk through a barns and nobel and see the number of monster fer books. I don't have a single peice of evidence I can find that would push me in another direction.
What backs you other than intuition?
All those data sets are too small to make sweeping generalizations about the majority of women all over the world, and you know it. Just because you want something to be true doesn't make it true. "Monster fer books" --- I have no idea what that is but reading novels doesn't equal causation.
I don't think Aella is an accurate example of a "typical" poly person. She is a sex worker afterall. She has made poly into a money-making career. And she is into extreme BDSM and fetish. The vast majority of poly people are not doing either of those things. Sex doesn't define their entire existence. Reading Aella makes it sound as if poly is all about sex, sex, sex and nothing else. If I were poly I'd be pretty pissed that she is putting herself forward as the "face of poly". It gives poly a bad look.
But then I suppose ordinary poly people don't want to be the face of anything. They are just regular folk going about their normal lives in a usual quiet way.
Something else to note is the whole Andrew Huberman fiasco that got exposed last year. Think about it... Dude lives in the same city as Aella. According to her SF is a poly paradise and even non poly people are so used to poly proliferating the area that absolutely no one bats an eye when one of their friends, colleagues or family members goes poly. OK. And yet Andrew instead chose to mislead multiple women into thinking he was monogamous toward them while cheating on all of them at the same time. Not just that, he consciously CHOSE to give one of them an STD that has a high risk of cancer and fatality. Afterall, he was in a "committed monogamous relationship" with only her and told her multiple times that he wanted a child with her, so why wear condoms, right? AND THIS GUY IS A DOCTOR!!! A world reknowned "health" podcaster!!!!
Why, just why? Why all the lying, cheating, secrets, sneaking around, complicated logistics, stress, anxiety, heartache, pain, disease and possible death, when all he had to do was tell these women he was poly? Make it make sense.
PS: Choking is when you get food stuck in your throat. What you are talking about here is strangulation which is simulated murder (what legally would be categorized as attempted murder).
Noted re: choking vs. strangulation! Good catch.
We don't think there's such a thing as a "typical" poly person. We've seen such wild variation between poly people, poly communities, polycules, etc.
Don't you live in Pennsylvania? Where are you meeting all these poly people?
@simonehcollins FYI: Off the top of my head (i.e. any errors are mine): Simone was raised in the Bay area. Malcolm went to Stanford. They travel professionally and socially (which is actually more like addition professional outreach for their non-profits) attending, or even hosting, various networking events like conferences, house parties, etc. They have a wide range of utility friends, high level clients, and other connections who they won't name regardless of status, due to much of their work, research, reporting, etc. requiring amenity/confidentiality (which as someone who has done University and clinical research as well as business and career turn around consulting, I totally understand). So, while their source datasets are varied and not publicly available, they are functioning as subject matter experts and/or professional researchers (Malcolm worked for the Smithsonian and some of his research their is still leading edge), all of their work is designed to be replicable/reproductive and falsifiable or at least verified through additional research/testing and challenged in that way. Also, they are actively canvassing for data, testable hypothesis, etc. To throw against their current theory sets. Thus they have developed praxologies, cultural practices, their own certified religion, and have made fundamental contributions to education and sustainable policies and procedures. Both are actively involved in politics with established but constantly evolving positions on many issues. Simone has run for office and, if my memory serves me correctly, Malcolm has participated in formal debates.