In this revealing discussion, the hosts delve into two alarming incidents highlighting societal decay and complacency. They contrast the case of Daniel Penny, who faced severe consequences for attempting to restrain a dangerous person on a New York subway, with a recent horrific event where bystanders filmed a woman being set on fire instead of helping her. The dialogue explores themes of learned helplessness, failing societal norms, and the wider implications of these events. With both reference to urban culture and poignant psychological studies, this episode provides a critical analysis of current moral and structural failings within society.
Malcolm Collins: [00:00:00] Hello, Simone. I am excited to be here with you today. Today. We are going to be contrasting two recent events, which I think do a good job of illustrating the degradation of our society and where we are at as a society right now. Specifically, the instance of Daniel Penny, when he attempted to restrain somebody he saw as a danger on a subway train, ended up accidentally killing them, and then had his life at risk as a result of this, but was recently freed, thankfully.
And then the other instance in which a person lit a woman on fire on a train, multiple people took video of this.
Simone Collins: Video?
Malcolm Collins: Wait,
Simone Collins: people recorded this happening?
Malcolm Collins: Yeah, they just extinguished her. Women's burning to death, stopped, didn't try to save her, flipped out their phones. A police officer, a police officer walked by, did nothing.
No one is facing any consequences for this.
Speaker: And how do you find [00:01:00] with respect to the charge of criminal indifference?
Speaker 2: We find the defendants Guilty. Order! Order
Speaker: Your callous indifference and utter disregard for everything that is good and decent has rocked the very foundation upon which our society is built.
Malcolm Collins: So this
Simone Collins: isn't just that they didn't apprehend the The immolator. They also didn't stop the immolation. What on
Malcolm Collins: earth? You, you, in our society right now, if you interfere, if you try to help, if you try to do anything you will be punished for
Simone Collins: it.
Malcolm Collins: It's what is being taught to people.
That is what it, in the, in the center of urban monoculture that is Manhattan. That is what the urban monoculture says. Don't try.
You compared it to the marshmallow study and a lot of people like that comparison. I'll compare it [00:02:00] to learned helplessness
Simone Collins: Okay, right.
Malcolm Collins: So for people who aren't familiar with learned helplessness, there was this experiment the psychological experiment done was mice and rats where if you Put a mouse or rat in like a bowl of let's say water You Right.
And there's nothing in there. And, and they, they learn that they're not going to find any sort of an edge to this bowl of water. Right. And then you put another set of them in a bowl of water that has like a little platform underneath it and part of it. So eventually they can find something to stand on to save themselves.
Simone Collins: Yeah.
Malcolm Collins: The ones that were in the water that didn't have this platform, They'll give up really quickly when you put them in water and just drown.
Simone Collins: Whereas
Malcolm Collins: the ones with the platform will keep trying for a very long period of time. And this is learned helplessness.
Simone Collins: So they'll like jump from the platform to the edge of the bowl again to try to get out?
Or they'll just
Malcolm Collins: know what I'm saying is that if the previous times they were put in the bowl and there was a platform somewhere in the [00:03:00] bowl,
Simone Collins: okay,
Malcolm Collins: even when the platform isn't there, they keep trying to convince us to stop trying. Yeah, we have to have a reason to
Simone Collins: believe that there's a way out.
Malcolm Collins: But anyway, I want to go over these instances and talk more about how deeply disturbing that this is where we are as a society,
That you Potentially are punished by having your life taken away from you by trying to save other people But you can sit there and film somebody burning to death.
I would no risk to you just doing nothing and The internet doesn't even care to vilify
Simone Collins: you
Malcolm Collins: Doesn't even care to dox you nobody cares because that's expected behavior Thanks So Debrina A 61 year old woman from Toms River, New Jersey, was the victim of this horrific attack. She was believed to be homeless and was sleeping on a stationary F train at the Coney Island Stilwell Avenue station in [00:04:00] Brooklyn when the incident occurred.
The attack in December 22nd 2024, around 730 Sebastian Zabeto Kali, a 33 year old man, allegedly approached the sleeping Kawam and set her on fire using a lighter. The attack was seemingly unprovoked and the suspect and victim were believed to be strangers and are believed to be strangers. He basically did it for fun because he was drunk.
It later came out. Now, I will also note here that this individual who did this had been kicked out of the United States as an illegal immigrant under Trump. And had come back into the United States under Biden's policy. Oh,
Simone Collins: no. Oh. Ah. Oh. Oh,
Malcolm Collins: boy. Horrifying. This is, this is, this is what happens when you allow for loose borders.
So. Yeah.
Simone Collins: Loose borders. Not, not a great idea.
Malcolm Collins: Bystanders and police response the incident has sparked outrage due to the apparent lack of immediate intervention from bystanders and police Officer present at the scene bystanders video footage shows at least three bystanders Looking on as [00:05:00] the victim was engulfed in flames.
Some individuals were seen filming the incident rather than offering help A police officer NYPD officer was seen on video walking past the burning woman, raising his hands as if unsure how to respond. This has led to criticism and questions of proper emergency response protocols, but also basic humanity.
The suspect. And by the way, people who don't know, people have been like, Oh, it looks like she was on drugs or something, from what we have seen, this is not the case. She was just asleep, and what is gonna happen if you wake up engulfed in flames? Like, you're, you're, you're going to be confused. So, obviously she's confused.
If you woke up in the middle of the night engulfed in flames, you would be confused as well. So it appears that he just Let someone on fire who was asleep. Okay, so the suspect he is an undocumented immigrant from Guatemala who had previously been deported in 2018 but re entered the United States illegally.
He was arrested hours after the attack when a group of high school students recognized him on [00:06:00] another train and alerted authorities. He reportedly claimed to have been drunk and unable to remember setting the woman on fire despite identifying himself in the photos and the surveillance video of the incident.
Simone Collins: Wow.
Malcolm Collins: So this is somebody who was known as dangerous, who had been deported and the left is just like, let them in, not demonize, like, you can't demonize immigrants over this, but an immigrant did do it. And an immigrant that we knew to deport did do this. Not a great
Simone Collins: look. Yeah.
Malcolm Collins: Not a great look, but also the, there were at least three people just sitting there watching, flipping out their phones.
Simone Collins: If you have time to film someone being lit on fire, you have time to find. Some kind of blanket or material to throw over them to extinguish the fire. Yeah. That's what's so sobering. They're also around any station, typically break glass to get water hose out. Yes, there should have been
Malcolm Collins: fire hoses all over the place.
It would have [00:07:00] required a trivial amount of work to find a fire hose. Not a firehead, but a fire extinguisher. Is it in a New York subway station?
Simone Collins: Yeah. Yeah. Nobody
Malcolm Collins: got up, nobody even looked, nobody even tried. I'm so confused by this.
Simone Collins: Why didn't anyone try?
Malcolm Collins: Well, there might have been a chilling effect from something that happened a year before.
This is the Daniel Pinney case. The Daniel Penney case involved a fatal incident that occurred on the New York subway station on May 2023.
Simone Collins: According to witness accounts,
Malcolm Collins: Jordan Neely boarded the F train and began to shout that he was hungry, thirsty, and needed a job. It at least screamed that he was quote unquote ready to die and not afraid of going to prison.
He removed his jacket and threw it on the floor. Some witnesses reported that he was throwing trash at other passengers and approaching people. So he was throwing things at people and making quote unquote half lunge movements and came within half a foot of some people according to passengers. Oh gosh.
He had [00:08:00] a extensively troubled past. He had an extensive criminal record, including 42 prior arrests. How do you have 42 prior arrests? There should be like a 10 arrest limit if you're in jail for the
Simone Collins: record. This is insane. You get like
Listen, I mean, we've had other episodes where we talk about this, like a very, very small Percentage of the population commits a sobering percentage, you know, like six.
Yeah, it's something
Malcolm Collins: like like 300 people in New York are responsible for like 20 percent of all the crimes, like, yeah, because they just keep letting them go. Yeah. And I guess, you know,
Simone Collins: Jordan Neely seems to have been one of those individuals.
Malcolm Collins: Yeah now these charges incurred larceny theft, and assault.
And so I was like, oh, assault! They seem to bury that one in a lot of newspapers. So I was like, what are these unprovoked assault cases, okay? So, he Had a 2001 assault in which he attacked a 67 year old woman. She suffered a broken nose, a fractured orbital bone, bruising and swelling at the back of her [00:09:00] head.
There was a 2019 assault in which he attacked a few different people in June. How, how did he even attack multiple people in the same year on the subway? You should not be out of jail within a year if you were attacking people on the subway. He attacked Thoman Castillo Bazar, a 68 year old man.
Seems to really love attacking old people. On the and the victim reported he was punched in the face without provocation. And then in another instance, he broke a victim's nose that year. And then he felt guilty to another misdemeanor assault in another instance. Oh, and he also exposed himself to a female stranger on the subway.
So, you know, likely to commit sexual assault and stuff like that. And then if you look at the public, like, what did they hear? They're like, oh, poor Michael Jackson impersonator who had had mental health problems linked to the trauma of his mother's death when he was 14. It's like, that was decades ago!
What are you on [00:10:00] about? How does that excuse his current actions?
Speaker 8: No! How could this happen? Where did society go wrong? How
Speaker 9: could the system fail this poor man?
Speaker 8: If only he'd had a better stool! Do you want some hot cocoa?
Speaker 11: Seems to be socio economics. Most likely an underfunded library.
Speaker 8: That's it! Ah! Ah! You shot this beautiful man for no reason! She's evil incarnate!
Speaker 10: He was stabbing Murderer! Murderer! He was
Speaker 8: expressing himself!
Simone Collins: I think we're allowed to have conversations about providing better resources and mental health support or whatever to young people and to [00:11:00] people in need, but also to not excuse this behavior. Like there's, you can have both. You can be empathetic and you can take care of people and you can also make sure that people are not, you know, putting more people at risk.
I mean, what new trauma is being caused by this person who's out, just like at large, hurting other people?
Malcolm Collins: Oh no, you, you nearly beat an old woman to death. Let's see if you should be tried. Oh no, it appears your mother died. You're, yeah, everyone's fucking mother. What do you, how is this even a traumatic event?
Right? It appears your mother died. Okay, well we're not gonna, you know, and there's this, this skip from Freedom Tunes I think goes over this very well which is to say that we as a society almost pathologically Are unable to see people who are in hard spots in life or in a worse situation than someone else in life as the perpetrator of a crime.
This is the entire mindset of the left, whether it's in how they view Hamas and Israel, whether it's how they view this instance, whether it's how they [00:12:00] view any instance. If somebody is in a worse situation than somebody else, they cannot be. victimizing the other individual. This is how you get instances where people are you know, chasing down Jewish kids on campus and they're going to barricade themselves in libraries and stuff like that.
The level of insanity within this mindset cannot be overstated, but the downstream psychological effects on society also can't be overstated. I'd love it if you could talk a bit to this. Well, this also shows
Simone Collins: a very disturbing lack of intellectual depth that you can have, you know, a truly victimized and hurting population, and that that same victimized and hurting population are, you know, In turn hurting a lot of other people like these two things can exist together.
And we, if we cannot have conversations about these complex things, if we are only capable of reducing things to this is the victim that we have to protect and this is the evil aggressor and this is the [00:13:00] hero. If we can only speak in these really simplistic ways, we will never be able to address the world's wicked problems.
And I'm not even saying solve because some wicked problems are impossible to solve in a single generation. But we cannot even begin to ameliorate their, their, their problems. We're only exacerbating them or reducing them to this level. So it's, it's, it, a lot of this stems from this incapability of us to have nuanced conversations that I think people used to have more in the past.
Malcolm Collins: Well, I mean, I think that there's a few things to note here and it's a few different camps of like psychological tricks that they're pulling on you. One is, is that good actions, actions that are for the net good of society and humanity. Sometimes hurt the dispossessed. Yes, people who have less whether it's less mental capacity or genetic propensity towards you know impulsive behavior that can lead to a degree of criminal actions But like this individual was clearly somebody who was both mentally struggling Financially struggling in an [00:14:00] ethnically, you know unfavorable position I guess in regards to society your people could argue that who needed to be in a facility his entire life.
Or in some other way removed as a player from public life. Much, much earlier than happened to him. It was clear that he was an ever present danger to everyone around him.
And the individual who restricted this person based on his past behavior, given that he gave a, 68 year old woman, like, a fracture in the back of her skull, like, he was going to kill someone eventually.
This individual saved a life almost certainly.
Simone Collins: Well, this reminds me a lot of the Park Slope man who killed the dog. Where there are just these very dangerous people who have frequent records of assaults or putting people, making people visibly uncomfortable being jailed multiple times threatening people regularly and lurking around.
And there's just this kind of this collective understanding that, well, you know, until they murder someone. [00:15:00] We, we can't really do anything. Yes. Let's not wait till somebody is a murderer to put them away. I think it's very frustrating too, for people like policemen who, I mean, okay. So you mentioned that the policeman who walks by in this footage of the woman being set on fire throwing up his hands, I feel like that's symbolic of a lot of people
Malcolm Collins: Is he been taught?
Simone Collins: Well, yeah, it's like, what am I supposed, like, great, what am I supposed to do now? Right? Like, you know, once again, I'm, I am going to be demonized for not doing anything, but if I do do something, I'm going to get in a lot of trouble, or I'm, I'm going to have not done it right. No, he could
Malcolm Collins: have looked for a fire extinguisher.
This, this, this incident showed that what he understood and what the other passengers understood is there are no societal consequences for not helping.
Simone Collins: That's true. That's true. Like, the one thing that you're allowed to do Is nothing it's take out your phone and film it taking out your phone and filming.
Yeah. Yeah, there's that But how that's so bad [00:16:00] because the society that thrives Is the one that says if you see a mess no matter who made it you clean it up If you see something broken no matter who broke it you fix it like that is the society that thrives and that's that's what we always Try to we've always tried to make this a culture of any company that we've been associated with or run You You know, if you see a problem, it's your responsibility.
Malcolm Collins: I remember how much you struggled in the early days of acquiring our company explaining to people it doesn't matter if you created the problem. If you spot it, fix it. It doesn't matter if you spilled the milk, you know, and this is something that growing up culturally was taught to both of us. It doesn't matter.
Who created the problem? All problems are your responsibility. And you're the only one willing to do anything about it. So many people have asked us that, like, why are you trying to solve this problem in society? Why are you trying to solve this problem? That's how I'm like, no one else is doing it.
Yeah.
Simone Collins: Yeah. That's why now, like now the whole thing is, I don't know. I feel you remember with the DC Metro, if you see something, say something. I think the lender and the London [00:17:00] underground also has those messages. Now it's just talk about it. And I think that's the same thing that's happening with the way that we're raising children.
It's if you see something, say something, appeal to authority complain, talk about it, but don't take it into your own hands. Don't fight back. Don't punch back. Don't Don't build new rules, you know, just appeal to authority you know, upload it to social media, record it, submit a complaint, talk to the manager, you know, like we're being turned collectively into, at best, Karen's, at worst, like, faceless NPCs.
I mean, like, this is, this is a scenario in which being a Karen is almost a point of pride, because at least they're doing something, you know, like, what on earth? How has it come to this? This is so bad. Well, how has it
Malcolm Collins: come to this? This is how it comes to this. This is how it comes to this is, is, is people like Daniel Penney that anyone and that the media, the legacy media, they acted like he was a villain.
They're like white person kills black person, black person protected class. He's a villain. They didn't [00:18:00] consider this guy's past actions. Well, I mean, and we saw this again, you know, you, you, you keep seeing this, like there's a
thing, right? You know, like, obviously this person was a villain.
Right? Like he, he would have hurt somebody eventually. And yet police officer, bad guy. There's no nuance here. And, but all of society has been trained on this. If a white person kills a black person, it's very much like the old lynch bombs. Oh you, you convince you random black person, even if it was in self defense.
Killed white person. Oh random black person, even if it was consensual sleth was white person, you know time to get the lynch mob ready and this is what happens when you build racial hierarchies and why racial hierarchies are evil And and I cannot I mean daniel pinney was just a lynch mob. It was just a traditional lynch mob.
Simone Collins: Did you think if is that, if, if Jordan Neely was white, do you think that this would have played out this way? Nothing. Totally different. If Jordan Neely was white, like, everything is exactly the same.
Even the [00:19:00] Michael Jackson impersonator. Like, all that. Nobody would have gave him a lying
Malcolm Collins: fuck.
Simone Collins: Yeah. Yeah.
Malcolm Collins: You know it! You know it's true! No one would have cared.
Simone Collins: Well, or, or maybe Daniel Penny would have been seen as a hero?
Malcolm Collins: Do you think? No, but if, no, but no. If, if, let's just switch the races. If, if, if Jordan Neely was white.
If Jordan Neely
Simone Collins: was white and Daniel Penny was
Malcolm Collins: black. He would have been a hero by mainstream media standards. I don't know. Oh, come on. Have you heard of a single incident? No, and I mean a single incident in media in which a black person killed a white person and was by mainstream media painted as a bad guy in the last five years.
Simone Collins: I almost feel like now
okay, what is my subconscious saying to me right now? It's saying that homeless, crazy and dispossessed people are kind of this new Untouchable, like I'm talking about the Indian cast in the United States, but in this really weird way, like [00:20:00] that they're untouchable, both because they discussed us, but also because in some way, they're like this.
Protected class that will poison us through reputational damage if we have any association with them whatsoever. And therefore, like, people aren't going to make you a hero for stopping them from doing bad things.
They also aren't
really going to make you a hero for working really closely with them because
Malcolm Collins: I think you're wrong about this I have I have regularly seen progressives brag about talk hanging out with homeless people engaging with homeless people I you know
Simone Collins: the last time that I came across someone who proudly and openly Did work with homeless people and this was actually really cool work.
What he did was work with homeless people to reestablish ties with their actual original communities and support networks. So like, Hey, well, let's reconnect you with your parents, with your brother, with your, whatever, like you sort of like, because they just lost touch with a lot of their [00:21:00] basically true family.
And larger kin support networks and by reestablishing those ties, they were able to get these people jobs again, homes again, like back on their feet. And this is one of the more consistent and proven ways to actually help people. Let me guess. You with a conservative. I don't remember. I didn't like note that in my notes when I spoke with him.
But that is actually, I think, a really interesting thing is that, you know, in the end, the thing that could save us all is returning to community, returning to kinship networks. That's who's, I mean, the police aren't going to do that. The, the urban
Malcolm Collins: monoculture specifically works to break up kinship networks through like trauma ideas.
But here was this
Simone Collins: guy trying to do what he could to do it. But I would say again, that was, that was I think 2019 when I met him, actually, that's the last time I heard of someone proudly and openly working with homeless people after [00:22:00] that point. I have not encountered. On social media or elsewhere a single person.
I'm obviously they're out there Yeah, they do not
Malcolm Collins: talk about it as much as they used to they used to talk about like socializing with them as like a point Of pride.
Simone Collins: Yeah, and remember my startup that I worked at. It's really Dating Yeah, I think in 2019, but again, and that's, that's what I'm saying in 2020, when, when all of this really reached a flashpoint with, with the, the, the riots and like a lot of cases of people either on the edge of homelessness or sort of being in this class of kind of like, because a lot of homeless people.
Are homeless because they're mentally unstable and kind of dangerous. I do think that there was both this like sacred and untouchable class placed on people in this category that made them toxic in the media and to many people. Well, this would be my thoughts on this.
Malcolm Collins: I think that the way that we deal with [00:23:00] this as a society, and I just generally think that this is what we should be doing is one.
We need to develop something that is like the prison system, but lower cost to operate for individuals who are less of a risk. What you're
Simone Collins: talking about is. Is, is poor houses like there were in the time of Dickens? No, not like poor houses. Because of the abuses that took place in those.
Malcolm Collins: So something maybe in between a poor house and an asylum you know, a lot of these people just have mental health issues.
Yeah. And they're like Democrats, a lot of people know this, but they shut down all the asylums after the book One Flew Over the Cuckoo's Nest got popular. Yeah. And then they're like, we're going to create like an alternative to this and they never created an alternative. They never got around to
Simone Collins: it.
Malcolm Collins: And that's where most of the, most of the homeless population today comes from. But if you what we need to do is we need to create a new type of thing that's cheaper to run than a prison because it doesn't require the same amount of guarding or anything like that. And what I would Doesn't require the same amount of guarding?
What? No, not a poor house. A literal guarded facility. This is for anyone [00:24:00] who is homeless who commits an assault. If they are both, I am okay with homeless people existing in this world, but I think a different set of rules needs to apply to them if they are assaulting random people.
Simone Collins: Well, and, or maybe shoplifting too.
Like, basically, if they're, if they are Yeah, a soldier undermining social cohesion and stability, then they, they, yeah.
Malcolm Collins: I feel like, oh my God, that creates a two tiered society for the home havers and the homeless. And I'm like, whatever, fine. It would fix a lot of our problems really quickly, both for these individuals.
Like, do you really want these individuals to keep staying out there until they murder someone or are murdered? Imagine. Because you're thinking about this from the perspective. The woman who was burned to death was also homeless. Imagine the women who have to live every fear of being, not, of being graped by one of these men because we keep letting them out after they have assaulted and exposed themselves to multiple women, and everyone knows that no one's going to [00:25:00] do themselves a favor.
Do, do anything if one of these homeless women go to these people. There, there is a reason even for the protection of the homeless community to be much more draconian in the way we apply rules to the community.
Simone Collins: Well, yeah, in fact, a lot of, a lot of people who are homeless do not go to homeless shelters because they're so afraid of things being stolen from them.
They're so afraid of assaults. Yeah, that's true.
Malcolm Collins: I think if we recontextualize the way that we handle this community, the community. I mean, we come up with different types of institutions to house them that are not as costly to run as prisons that don't have the oversight of prisons, but also help because you've got to, there's a number of people like this guy who just like randomly assault people, right?
Like, there's a reason you can't hire someone who randomly assaults people. Okay. There's a reason you can't hire someone who lunges a few inches from somebody's face or randomly hits old ladies. Like. That's not normal human behavior. And yet a portion of the human population is going to betray this behavior because it's going to be a portion of humanity that is outside this, like normal human boundary.
Well, [00:26:00] what do you do with them? Right? Like, what do you do with them? And at a certain point you need to say, they're like, well, they should go to a homeless shelter, but what do they don't want to know? You've got a random assault maniac on the subway, right? Like.
Simone Collins: Yeah,
Malcolm Collins: we need to have society that has consequences for allowing yourself to become this type of person and some of these people, maybe they wouldn't have allowed themselves to this into this level if they had known that society had consequences in store for them, but because we live in a society that doesn't, we allow for this to proliferate and women get it.
Lit on fire, like the women in this community, you could not imagine how much like it is horrifying to me, the degree to which people don't care when the violence is inter community, when they are acting violent outside of this community, they are doing it within the community. Tenfold.
Simone Collins: Yeah,
Malcolm Collins: I mean, you know, you notice that none of these reports came from him beating up a homeless person because nobody cared about those people.[00:27:00]
How many did he maybe kill in the comedy? You know, you don't know because nobody cares. So this makes life even for the homeless. So what do you think of my, my, my policy? Bring back asylums. For homeless individuals that specifically theft. And, and, and it has to be demonstrable, demonstrable theft or assault.
Demonstrable theft or assault, I would put it a higher level of proof. So, like, you can't just have, like, a police officer claim it or something like that. It needs to be, like, really, really obvious. But when you have demonstrable theft or
Simone Collins: assault
Malcolm Collins: And a higher level of proof than just reasonable doubt beyond reasonable doubt that the, the person just has to live in one of these facilities until they can qualify for exit, and that they qualify for exit by not assaulting people for a long period of time in the facility, or acting better, so it wouldn't act like a normal prison where you're there for like X sentence, you're there until it appears you're no longer a threat to society.
Simone Collins: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. [00:28:00]
Malcolm Collins: What do you, is this too spicy or no, it's
Simone Collins: not too spicy. I just, yeah. I'm, I'm thinking about the fact that, you know, all these people were once kids. And I wish that they had better outcomes in life. Like, people deserve so much better. And it makes me sad. It makes me really sad that bad things happen to people.
I really want good things to happen to people.
Malcolm Collins: If you're talking about the types of things that can happen at these facilities, I do remind you that of adoption the 1 percent of children who were adopted by, from people who parents who had I think it's felonies on their, their resumes committed 30 percent of the crimes of all adoptees.
Well,
Simone Collins: this is again, like people, you know, talking about demographic collapse or like, let's just ban birth control. Let's just ban, like, No, no, we, we don't, no, we don't need unwanted children. We don't need people who do not have their lives together and who are [00:29:00] not, you know, resourced enough to raise kids well and take care of them and love them to have kids.
Are you insane? Oh, let's just ban condoms. No, shut up. Stop. Go eat a can of tuna and just cheer up. I don't know. I don't know what to say. Go eat a can of tuna. Huh? Yeah, sorry. I was watching this long video about Kennedy. Wait, you have,
Malcolm Collins: wait, this is one of your Pinterest videos that you have on while you talk to me?
No,
Simone Collins: no, no, no, no, I don't watch videos while you, no, no, no. I, I was watching before we recorded this podcast, this long video. Like biography video on YouTube about RFK. He apparently ate a lot of tuna. I think that people can't
Malcolm Collins: conceptualize when you mention something like, The woman burnt alive. They can't conceptualize the pain or the cruelty that's involved in this.
And the guy's like, I was drunk. I don't know, you know, whatever. Like, we do not, like, we, we, we just need to have a [00:30:00] better understanding that sometimes a person can be dispossessed and a danger to society.
Simone Collins: Yeah.
Malcolm Collins: And we are just, like, unable to accept this.
Simone Collins: Yeah. That, that, well, and, and, that you can be a victim and that you can have been wronged by society and that you can deserve better.
But also that you can be capable of doing terrible things and you should be removed from mainstream society because you're a danger to other people. Like, all those things can be true. All those things can be true. We can do better. We can do so much better. And there needs to be better systems. And also like, those people should not be on the streets hurting other people.
Yeah, I, I agree. I agree.
Malcolm Collins: Well, I mean, we, we got to go full El Salvador here. Hey, if you look at how well this country is doing right now.
Simone Collins: Yeah,
Malcolm Collins: that is true. What an exceptional person, by the way, to have pulled through everything he pulled through. Dismantling the gangs, moving to Bitcoin, he's so forth thinking, I really,
Simone Collins: Yeah, yeah yeah, what a, like, visionary, Yeah, I need to read more about what's going on there and how it's [00:31:00] playing out.
That's wild. There's, yeah, I mean, I think that that at least El Salvador shows that there is there's hope for disruption in any system and that things can change really quickly. So there's that. I mean, that, that's something that's really notable because, you know, you see, God, I just saw a stat the other day that like gang employment or crime is like the, the fifth largest employer in Mexico right now.
Like you see Mexico and you're like, Oh gosh, like they're just gone forever. Like, guess I'm just going to write off Mexico now, but no, because El Salvador was able to pull off a huge change. It was able to crack down, like countries can turn around and that's really encouraging. So I, I, I,
Malcolm Collins: And you know, for people who don't know my take on Mexico, like, What's your take on Mexico?
Well, Peter Zeihan hates, hates this particular take. He's like, you cannot occupy Mexico. It's, it's, it's too big. There's, I'm like, no, you can occupy Mexico. I don't know. It
Simone Collins: is really [00:32:00] sprawling. I don't know what you're talking about here. Are you serious? I
Malcolm Collins: think that what we should focus on is occupying Mexico and building a stronger border at the Southern tip of Mexico, because it's a much, much smaller border to a chokehold.
Simone Collins: Okay. And it allows
Malcolm Collins: you to stomp out the gangs. As long as the gangs grow and fester in Mexico, they spill over into the United States, no matter what, like it's, it's, it's, I mean, the Mexican gangs coming into the United States are horrifying that we have What are you
Simone Collins: saying? Like, wait, so Occupy Mexico, like invade?
Like take over? Or just what? I
Malcolm Collins: think that Mexico, we need to find a way to partner with somebody who ends up becoming president of Mexico. Okay, so install a false but very collaborative leader in Mexico. Not a false, I think that the Mexican people can understand the benefit of America developing a mutually beneficial relationship in which the country is under a U.
S. [00:33:00] military occupation. Okay, so,
Simone Collins: okay, here's how it would go. Rogue, US nonprofit or like dark money operation does a, a kind of like an AOC style. You've got talent. America's got talent. You don't even need to do
Malcolm Collins: that. Look, the problem is Mexico right now is a figure who is opposed to the gangs and could win the presidency could arise.
Simone Collins: Yeah,
Malcolm Collins: but he'd be assassinated.
Simone Collins: Yeah. Okay. So, so my, my whole, my, my, what I'm saying though is like, okay, one. Run a talent competition for that figure to like extremely, like basically remove them from Mexico and make them completely inaccessible, like put them in a, like, No, they would win.
Malcolm Collins: You just give them protection.
Look, the point of making them
Simone Collins: heavy protection, three, like, Run them for president and have them like pre connected with But you
Malcolm Collins: don't need to do what you're talking about. That's the problem. That would make them inauthentic. You just need to wait until somebody is rising in popularity Oh, and then support profile of this, [00:34:00] and then offer them protection.
Okay. Even if it's covert, and then eventually work to integrate Mexico into our security system, because right now people are like, Oh, it would cost so much to handle the gangs in Mexico. If Mexico was a stable country, that would do so much. Yeah. Like
Simone Collins: for America, there would be an ROI in like putting us armed personnel there.
If we have a collaborative Mexican president, you're saying like,
Malcolm Collins: if,
Simone Collins: if there were,
Malcolm Collins: yes, if you could stabilize the safety, that's the core reason it's still cheap to manufacture in Mexico. In fact, the core downside of this is that Mexico would increase in value so much the, the goods made there, the labor there would increase really quickly.
The only reason it's artificially low now is because of the gains. Like Mexico should not be as poor of a country as it is. It makes no sense that Mexico is as poor as it is. Yeah. It should be a, a, a. Like if you look at like China, like why is it cheaper to manufacture things in [00:35:00] Mexico than China?
Simone Collins: It's just a game.
Oh, man. Yeah. Yeah, okay, that's a, that's an underrated opportunity. No one's talking about that, which is interesting. Well, and the other thing that
Malcolm Collins: people don't talk about is our border with Mexico is f ing enormous. Yeah. Mexico's border with its southern neighbor is tiny, tiny, tiny. Tiny, tiny, tiny, yeah. If you put a choke We can build the wall there.
At the smallest point in Mexico, you don't even need to put it on the smallest border. The smallest point in Mexico, you're going to get a very easy to defend choke point. Then you only need to defend the waters. Until Canada falls, which, you know, 10, 20 years. Well,
Simone Collins: right, and that's another underrated thing is the number of people coming through our border to Canada.
Malcolm Collins: It's not that underrated. Mexico is the primary crossing point in the southern border.
Simone Collins: Yeah, because it's cold up there in Canada and also very sparsely populated. It's sparsely populated. Yeah. Well, okay. Interesting. Yeah, this was yeah, this was
Malcolm Collins: This is this is me when people is oh, he's kind of a [00:36:00] strong man in his approaches to things People have called me libertarian and i'm like I am not i'm I I am libertarian in the same way the el salvador guy is libertarian He's libertarian that he wants bitcoin to be the company's current the country's currency, but he's um You You know also very strong Manny in the way he deals with things like crime.
And I think that we need a bit of both. We need more freedom for people who are positive actors in society and less freedom for people who are demonstrably negative actors in society. i. e. physically assault other humans.
Simone Collins: Yeah so let's see. I guess the new version of speak softly and carry a big stick is something like, offer Bitcoin, but, Walk with kill drones. What would that I mean? Like what? Yes kill drones and crypto Okay, well [00:37:00] Welcome for Emperor.
I'm right there with you.
Malcolm Collins: Hey, it's the only realistic solution that I see right now When I looked at what's worked in other environments and Yeah But I think that eventually we'll get to a place where all of the, the, the thriving places of the world will operate on a system like this. And that we'll understand.
One of my favorite things is when the Guardian was doing the piece on our government system and they're like, well, it appears that somebody who pays no taxes and takes from the government isn't going to have any power within this system. How are you going to get them to immigrate to your country? And I was like, Wait, why would I want them to immigrate to my country?
Like other countries can deal with them. You in the UK can deal with them. We will take the taxpayers.
Simone Collins: Oh, the UK is really not looking good at the beginning of 2025. It is really, really not looking good. And I'm now getting all these videos in my feed. I don't know. The algorithm [00:38:00] has obviously found that I'm interested in the downfall of the UK, which I'm not, by the way.
I love the UK. I cannot, I can't afford to have the UK sink into the ocean. Okay. So one, this is not okay. But two, I'm seeing all these videos of people who are basically like falling apart. I'm leaving for all these reasons. Like, here's my like hour long video about why I'm now teaching English in Hong Kong.
Malcolm Collins: The UK is looking to escape. This is screwed up. This is really bad. A fascist dictatorship by the far left.
Simone Collins: Do you think they can turn it around? Can someone else Salvador the UK? No,
Malcolm Collins: the way the government is structured is going to make it very, very hard for the UK to turn it around unless they regularly and only vote far right over and over and over and over again.
Simone Collins: I mean
Malcolm Collins: They might, but Oh,
Simone Collins: but like, no, they're so milquetoast on so many things, it's really
Malcolm Collins: annoying.
The far right in the UK is so pathetic. They're like, ban [00:39:00] pornography types. They're like Or they're like
Simone Collins: Well, I guess things are just going downhill and maybe we can
Malcolm Collins: really, well, I don't want to look like a racist and it's like, well, you know, maybe a little racist,
Simone Collins: but we're not seeing the level of violent and by violent, I don't mean physically, but I mean like, striking, stark aggressive, visionary.
Revolutionary political thought that we would need to see among the far right. It's all very incrementalist. It's all very like, well, I mean like, you know, if we just I
Malcolm Collins: don't want to call the bother. I don't want to call the bother. But it seems like a few things that we're doing here aren't working. What kind of accent is that?
I'm trying to do my yaw accent. Oh. And one of my favorite, so on a recent video we did where we were talking about how in the UK like girls are in these like gangrape groups and obviously they're
[00:40:00]
Malcolm Collins: sorry, is that offensive to say, obviously gangrape groups are always . Like, I, I don't know anywhere where there's like a big problem with gangrape groups that aren't
Malcolm Collins: I don't know. Whose father was arrested for trying to protect them. Arguably. What? Epstein,
Simone Collins: arguably, was, was.
Malcolm Collins: That wasn't. That wasn't, it was very different. Of course. It was, it was high class. Simone, I'm sorry. Like these girls are being paid and doing this voluntarily. Like it is not the same thing. I know.
Yeah. I'm just trying.
Simone Collins: I was racking my brain for examples of non Islamic. We were talking on our video
Malcolm Collins: about how in the UK, there was this instance of this father trying to save his daughter from this. And he was arrested under like drunken disorderly stuff. And they're like, there were multiple
Simone Collins: instances of parents.
We don't want to cause
Malcolm Collins: a racial disruption. And one of our fans from Nigeria was like, Oh my God. Like, look, [00:41:00] I'm sorry. Like I'm from a country where these people are coming from and we would not allow this here. Like islamic countries don't allow this. Why are you allowing this? What is wrong with you? And yet in the UK I posted a video complaining about this I could be sent to jail.
Simone Collins: Yeah,
Malcolm Collins: the
Simone Collins: UK is in a really bad way. Yeah, well still okay, at least we're not in the UK. Okay, don't do this guys, don't. Don't screw up my happy place.
Malcolm Collins: We'll have to have UK little diasporas in the US. No,
Simone Collins: we're never going to be able to pull off Scotch Egg. Well, we can't. With science, anything can be done. If we can literally create super babies, some
Malcolm Collins: of these UK people over near us, build them a little settlement so they can get away from the, you know, the terrifying people.
Honestly, the view from my house
Simone Collins: looks like the English countryside. So I can make this work.
Malcolm Collins: I can make this work. I love you. There's just not bold [00:42:00] enough. I'm sorry. I like my friends from the UK. They consider Boris Johnson bold. Bold hair? Bold hair. Boris Johnson is milquetoast.
Simone Collins: Yeah, well, I guess, where things are with the UK now, we need much more bold action.
And I would encourage our friends in the UK What they
Malcolm Collins: need is an Oliver Cromwell to come back in and tidy things up for them.
Simone Collins: Yeah.
Malcolm Collins: Or Margaret
Simone Collins: Thatcher. I
Malcolm Collins: love Margaret Thatcher.
Simone Collins: She was great. Oh, what a lady. Yeah, it can happen.
Malcolm Collins: Maybe. Anyway I love you to Desimone. You are the absolute best. Again I am.
Yeah, and I'm so excited for our initiatives. And anybody, yeah, We love you guys, our fans. You make all this worth it.
Simone Collins: Europeans. Kind of [00:43:00] honored, surprised. I don't know, like, humbled by the caliber of people who watch this.
Malcolm Collins: Which is why we need to get more of them to donate their money to us if they die.
So, one of our fans said this to me, and I was like, No, we gotta set this up, and what we're gonna build is a DNA databank. So, you send us your full DNA sequence, and we'll just include it in our founding documents, and if we end up becoming a big movement in the future Yeah, we're not asking for all of your money or whatever, but if you want us to include this and you're a donor, we'll include it along with any AI training data you want and future people may end up using it to, I don't know, train AI models or in creating of humans as a blank human DNA template.
Okay, but it better be a better shot you have of being represented in the future than just like spamming kids at a sperm clinic or something.
Simone Collins: But beyond that. If you are watching this because you feel intellectually isolated and you're watching this because, you know, some people who commented on another episode mentioned [00:44:00] that.
Remember that there is a Discord that we have where it's, it's a really great community and a lot of people who come to us saying like, hey, I also feel really intellectually isolated, you know, do, is there anywhere I can go? They've enjoyed the discord a lot and it's, it's a really great group of people.
So, and it's very, very
Malcolm Collins: active.
Simone Collins: If you're inclined to do group chat Malcolm, please, if you could leave a link there I would encourage you to check it out. And we hope that this helps you feel less lonely in addition to hanging out with us. And we are honored to have you here. So I
Malcolm Collins: love you to death Simone.
You are an absolute princess.
Simone Collins: I love you. And I will get your rendang taquitos started and please get the kids. Are we doing rendang
Malcolm Collins: taquitos tonight or more of the lemon rice? That lemon rice was so good.
Simone Collins: Oh, I can do more lemon rice. There's just not a whole lot of the rendang left, but I can do some of those Indian appetizers to accompany it.
No, that doesn't
Malcolm Collins: really work. Do the taquitos.
Simone Collins: Okay, taquitos. Because I, but I also have, like, refrigerated the rice. Or if the rice was
Malcolm Collins: the next day's dish, by the way, lemon rice, [00:45:00] amazing. You're a great cook.
Simone Collins: So good. You know what the secret is, I think, is sugar. Did you, did you try the lemon rice, by the way?
Yes, of course. I kept swiping, swiping bites. It's, it's really good. It's lemon and coconut rice. You're gonna have all the lemon
Malcolm Collins: rice from now on, baby. You know what, actually, here's the thing. I want you to invent new types of rice. Orange rice? Sorry, sorry,
Simone Collins: it's not, no, lime. Lime coconut rice.
Malcolm Collins: But I want you to experiment here.
Simone Collins: For the record, it is in a rice cooker. What? Jasmine rice with not light, but heavy coconut milk instead of water after, of course rinsing the starch out of the rice. Add the zest, like per one cup of rice, you're adding the zest and juice of one lime. So I did three cups of rice. Zest means you're scraping the outside.
Yeah. You're, you're grading the outside of the, of the line and then you are putting all the juice in there and then you also put in, I think I put in like at least a tablespoon of sugar some salt [00:46:00] and that I think really made it,
Oh, so good.
Anyway. Okay. I love you. Bye. Bye. Oh,
Malcolm Collins: Oh, that's no, isn't it? So pretty. Yeah. Oh my gosh.
Simone Collins: All right. Do do a prenatal conference pitch. Oh, yes. If you want to have a good time and meet a bunch of other prenatalist families. And also there were a lot of just single young prenatalist people to go to the natal con in Austin this March. You can get a 10 percent discount on your registration if you enter the code Collins because we are here for you and hopefully we'll get to meet you in person this spring.
Speaker 6: Oh my gosh. Oh [00:47:00] my gosh. There were no survivors. Say I love you daddy. I love you. I love you daddy. Drive safe daddy.
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