This episode delves into the dynamic emergence of the 'New Right' within American politics, a movement distinguished by its blend of tech-savvy entrepreneurship and libertarian ideals. The discussion contrasts the New Right's forward-thinking approach, characterized by interests in AI, genetics, and defending Western culture, with the traditional GOP and the Democratic left. Topics include its positions on pronatalism, free speech, and cultural diversity. The conversation also covers strategic shifts, such as choosing JD Vance over traditional figures like Mike Pence, highlighting the movement's focus on innovation and pluralism while addressing its relationship with past political movements and its potential to reshape the political landscape. Personal anecdotes and exchanges between speakers provide a light-hearted element amidst these intense, future-oriented discussions.
[00:00:00]
Speaker 2: Hello Simone!
Speaker: Hello Malcolm!
Speaker 2: Among the American right, there have long been fears of overly technophilic individuals
Speaker 4: there is a whole breakaway civilization. What's happening? I'm gonna give you the big secret, man, if you want it. Yes, I do. This big breakaway civilization of scientists. Is that true? Yes. What are you, from Mars? Let's just say, it's super advanced. For real? I don't ever talk about this. For real? Breakaway civilization?
Are you ready? They're the high priests. They're scientists. Right. They're engineers. Tell me what you're trying to say. They're racing. We're using human technology to try to take our best minds and build some type of breakaway civilization where they're gonna break away from the failed species that is man.
Where are you getting this from? You read their own writings. They believe we're this fallen, species.
Speaker 2: Hello. I have to say that's us right here, the ones that you're afraid of. Sometimes I worry he's read our stuff.
Speaker 6: From the moment I understood the weakness of my flesh, it disgusted me. [00:01:00] I
Speaker 2: This has been really interesting as our movement has grown as a right leaning movement and as it has integrated with the larger new right, which is made up of all of these new, I guess you could say like, Tech entrepreneur types is sort of the core of the new, right?
Whether it's the Elon's or the Peter Thiel's or the Mark Andreessen's or people like us this movement has been emerging. And I think with the JD Vance interview, and he's obviously not 100 percent in the new, right, but he is definitely on the new right spectrum definitely closer to the new right than legacy GOP.
And We have done some stuff where we talk about like a new right manifesto where we describe the larger political philosophy of the new right But on this episode what I really wanted to focus on is specifically How the new right is different from the legacy gop like where we have our conflicts How those conflicts might be able to like how we might be able to find truces around those conflicts so that we can [00:02:00] better work together and Where the conflicts might be more intractable, so the 1st big 1, when I was thinking about, like, reaching out to. Mainstream because we recently had this big piece on us in the wall street journal. We are definitely entering a stage now where we, among the new right speakers are probably we're definitely not like the leader, like the leader of the new right is, I'd say uncontrovertibly Elon Musk or J.
D. Vance. But both of them like JD Vance right now is mostly a surrogate of the Trump campaign and Elon Musk doesn't have time to go out and give like Long speeches on whether it's like theology or the future of humanity or sociology or anthropology, which are the types of things we do on this.
And, and you have, you know, you can have a Marc Andreessen or Peter, but, but, but most of the big new right people, except for maybe what's that one podcast where they're all new right people and it's really big. Someone that Chamas is on.
Speaker: Oh, the [00:03:00] online podcast. Actually, no, they're not all new right.
Okay. Some of them are open Democrats who,
Speaker 2: Oh, really? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So that sort of makes us, I guess, one of the central, solidly new, right, mouthpieces. So it's good for us, talking heads, , to, , explain how this group came to a lot of the positions it's hold.
And where it's coming from as well as better characterize the types of people that are in it so, the 1st thing where I just think the old right is being stubborn is I've been trying to bridge the divide recently between the old right. Legacy GOP.
You keep telling me I can't say that they're old. And us and in terms of reaching out about doing podcasts with them, even when they said like terrible things about us in the past. I'm like, look, like with venture. I'm like, look, let's bury the hatchet. Let's do something. You know, I, I think that there's a way that we can, we can work together.
We were reaching out to the Federalists that did this piece on us. That was like, They play a sick game with their children. We're the strongest get to [00:04:00] survive. And it's interesting because while in a way, and I think that this shows why the new right and the old right can work sort of side by side and hold these two ideologies here, is that very sentiment Is in a way a very left leaning sentiment this idea of like pure equality, like when they're looking at us and our children, they see us as like Spartan, like exposing our infants, basically.
But the, the, the Spartan lifestyle was not one that people would say is a particularly left leaning lifestyle. It is, you know, a fear of change that might be spurning this or a dedication to older deontological structures. But you actually see this in other places. When I think about the things I have to apologize for when I'm reaching out to these legacy right influencers, one of the biggest is our belief a bit like Humans have genes and this matters and is something we should be paying attention to.
And this is one of the things you see across [00:05:00] the new right. And I wanted to get your thoughts on this because you've definitely had these conversations where it is actually weird to, from a right wing perspective, having to be explaining to another right winger. But I mean, you aren't actually a blank slatus, right?
Like, you know, that humans are born with varying levels of proficiency. At a genetic level, right? And like, this matters in terms of differential birth rate within our country. Like, what are your thoughts?
Speaker: I think there are two elements to this, which is the Christian element where there's this very vehement, we're all equal under God view.
It's not about genes and also science is kind of not the most Christian thing to do in some Christian circles. Right. And I think the other thing is just blank slatism was so heavily hammered into people in both public and private schools, at least in our childhoods and so heavily hammered in through media.
That even if you aren't necessarily from a culture or group that would intentionally support that viewpoint, if fully [00:06:00] informed, has just come to naturally because it is a more pervasive ideology taught in society. Does that check out with you?
Speaker 2: Does? I actually think it's more than that. I think that the, when, when reaching out to legacy right influencers, They know that the attacks that we're getting around, like, humans have genes and it matters attacks.
I think a lot of them actually believe this. They've just discovered that this is one of the issues that they're going to capitulate to the left on. Why?
Speaker: Why would they capitulate to the left on anything that isn't true?
Speaker 2: Because they think that the, the right wing movement will intrinsically be labeled as racist if they take this position and therefore they cannot platform people who are taking this position or they cannot.
I think that that's it. They're afraid like they know it's true, but they think that the only way it can be true is in a racist way where we do a lot of arguments on our show that like, no, actually human genetics change so fast. It doesn't really make sense to think of us as like divided ethnic groups and it matters much [00:07:00] more what your cultural group is.
Which goes against a lot of like leftist narratives and people can google old videos we have on this. But I think that they In the same way that it took a while for leftists to realize that they can talk about population collapse without being racist. Because I think that was something to begin with on population collapse.
Like, you could go to a mainstream media and they'd be like, Yes, by the statistics I see that it's happening. But we have to pretend it's not happening because to say that it's happening is to be a racist.
Speaker: Right.
Speaker 2: What are your thoughts on that?
Speaker: I guess that checks out. Yeah. And it's very tiring to be called a racist.
So I could see that. Yes. Yes.
Speaker 2: Yeah, well, and they, they would see it as hurting the wider,
Speaker: yeah, avoid, avoid any witch hunt accusations. You know, you may not be a witch, but like, don't go out wearing a witch hat, walking around with a broom, and adopting a black cat if you're an old woman, right?
Who do you know she is a witch? She looks like one!
Speaker 2: Yeah, [00:08:00] that's a good point.
Yeah, you're gonna get
Microphone (Wireless Microphone Rx): This is a great depiction. Of pretty much every lefty racist witch hunt recently where they're looking for the quote unquote racist. So in it just replaced the term, which was racist.
Who do you know she is a witch? She looks like one! They dressed me up like this. Well, we did do the nose. And the hat. But she's a witch!
Don't dress her up like this. No! No! No! Yes! Yes! A bit! A bit! A bit! A bit! She has got a wart! She turned me into a newt! A newt? I got better. Burn her anyway!
Speaker 2: So the, the, the next thing I wanted to touch on here which we won't be going deep into, that into in this particular podcast is the cluster of issues that the new right cares about. And the reason I'm not really going to go into it that much is because it's not a point of differentiation from the old right.
Until we get to the last few. So the first is human genetics. Most people in the new right care about human genetics or genetic [00:09:00] selection. The second is pronatalism. Pronatalism is like the core cause area of the new right, which is how we sort of ended up becoming talking heads within it. The next is education reform.
Another area that we care deeply about and that is, is obviously like a core. thesis of the new right. The next is free speech. The next is charter cities. And a lot of people are really surprised. Why are charter cities such like a focus of the new right? If they're not familiar with the wider new right ideology.
And the idea here is that if our current society continues to fall to the urban monoculture and the United States becomes more socialist or even Marxist, you know, we need to have a realistic backup options. And right now, the United States is Probably the best option for a country you can live in in the world.
And so while we are working to stabilize any sort of potential collapse here, you know, they're always looking for
Microphone (Wireless Microphone Rx)-1: Backup option of some sort. And I realized that people. Think that means that you have given up on the first option because they are [00:10:00] not thinking long-term or strategically they hear someone like Elan say, well, we need a backup option on Mars. And they're like, oh, does that mean. You know, you've given up on earth and it's like, stop being stupid.
If an asteroid comes and it's going to hit our planet and we don't have a way to stop it right now, that means all life that we know of in the universe. And. Specifically our species. Is going to go extinct.
Microphone (Wireless Microphone Rx)-1: There are a hundred things that could cause all life on earth to go extinct like that, that we have no control over. Backup options matter.
They don't mean that you've given up on the first option.
And it's important to remember the stakes here. The survival of our species and civilization.
You don't approve. [00:11:00] Well, too bad. We're in this for the species, boys and girls..
Microphone (Wireless Microphone Rx)-1: So when we're looking at something like a backup options for the United States, That doesn't mean that we've given up on the United States. It just means that we're being realistic.
About how much power the urban monoculture has already been able to accrue.
And that what we can try to succeed. We might fail.
Hubris is a CIT.
Microphone (Wireless Microphone Rx)-2: And fundamentally the left can never be our allies in this endeavor to save our civilization and species because they see our species.
As deserving of destruction. Moreover, what they really care about is just pleasure in the moment and pleasure of existing humans in the moment.
These unemployed men have been having sex for several days. Joining me now is their spokesperson, , what exactly are you trying to accomplish? We're doing the only thing we can do. We have to take matters into our own hands.
We're trying to turn everyone gay so that there are no future humans. Present day America. Number one.
worse, our [00:12:00] civilization. , Western civilization, you point out, oh, look at all the great things we've achieved and there'll be like, no. Western civilization is an inherent evil.
Microphone (Wireless Microphone Rx)-2: That is part of what has driven this faction to the right is we can at least agree that humanity. Surviving is a fundamentally good thing. And Western civilization is a fundamentally good thing.
Speaker 42: Ouya, there is always another way. No. Please. I know how to make sure the world stays free forever. I have to make the whole world America. You don't understand what you're doing. I do, Ouya. I know you come from a place without America, which is the saddest thing I can think of, but that won't be a problem for anyone ever again.
Please. Stop. You can't stop freedom, not when it's this strong. I'm gonna send pure American freedom across every inch of the [00:13:00] planet. Please. Please. Please. Please. Think about it! A perfect world! The United World of America! I have failed. I'm so sorry. I'm so sorry. AMERICA!
Speaker 2: Other things, but then the next one is crypto, most people in the new writer involved in crypto in some way. As to why that is, I think that that comes [00:14:00] from sort of like a one, they're tech bros into the sort of libertarian ethos of the new, right.
And so. Yeah, pure libertarian, but it is adjacent. And the final two, which we sort of hinted at at the beginning of this and is one area where we run into a lot of conflict with the old right is bio acceleration ism and AI acceleration ism. This was actually really interesting to me as I've been on some old right talk shows like John Papalopoulos or whatever his name was.
And he was talking about like transhumanist is evil and everything like that. And I was like, you know that most of this like new faction that's come into the right is probably what you would consider transhumanist. In that they believe in the technological acceleration of humanity and various well, you know, whether it's Elon Musk was Neuralink.
I myself got my first job in brain computer interface as well. So the same sort of early technology that Neuralink is I don't actually feel like like this is one of those things where when you actually talk [00:15:00] through somebody on the old right about this, they typically abandon this anger pretty quickly or this bias pretty quickly because I've noticed that it's not actually like a real fear they have.
It's more like an aesthetic position that they think that they're supposed to take because they assume that the transhumanists are a predominantly leftist faction.
Speaker: I see it more as part of a, an anti corporate conspiracy theory thing or like government control thing. Like there was that one woman whose radio show we were on who I had this narrative about vaccines for, you know, what, including micro chips or robots that turned people into trans humans which she meant trans humans, not trans humans, humans that are trans, but like.
I don't know. Robot cyborg,
Speaker 9: The device is called the Psychic Dominator. There will be no more free will.
Only my will.
Speaker: like
Speaker 2: the sign of the beast on it or [00:16:00] something.
Speaker: Yeah. It was, it was complicated, but I see it more being associated with it's, I, it's more in the category of lizard people, like transhumanists and lizard people are of the same genre, which is inhuman monsters that are enemies conspiring against you, but from positions of power, does that make sense?
Speaker 2: Yeah, that doesn't make sense.
Speaker 15: Everything they teach you in school is a lie. You want the truth? The world is controlled by shadowy elites and shapeshifting lizard people. Let's talk about Reptoids. Be sure to follow these do's and don'ts to avoid a diplomatic incident.
Got it. Be resPectful. So when do we talk about the orchids?
Speaker 17: Oh,
Speaker 15: come on. What? Everyone knows reptoids have orchids. This is an HR meeting.
Speaker 22: The time is coming, brethren. Soon we shall fulfill the prophecy, overthrow humanity, and become the true rulers of the world!
Speaker 19: They say that every year, but they're never gonna do it.
Speaker 2: And if, [00:17:00] if, You would like to understand why most of the New Right takes this perspective. The New Right sort of has one overarching goal, which is to save humanity from the urban monoculture, to save humanity from the barbaric people, and to ensure that one day humanity becomes an interstellar empire.
I. e. the protection of the species and the thriving portion of the species. If you are taking that as a goal, one of your biggest fears is some other faction of humanity, a totalizing or fascist faction of humanity, ends up becoming dramatically more, Advanced than the pluralistic humans. And by that, what I mean is I don't need like my people to be the most cybernetically or biologically advanced.
What I need is whoever is the most cybernetically or biologically advanced is willing to either defend my [00:18:00] people. Or at least doesn't actively want to wipe us out. And. One of the big fears that we have is some group like China or some group like, I don't know, some other, maybe a faction within the urban monoculture ends up going in one of these directions and we lack the ability to defend ourselves.
And so I think from the perspective of the legacy, right, if they act when they actually think through this and they realize that we are actually honest in wanting to defend their way of life, they're like, okay, I can see that. We probably will want some super soldiers of our own. Basically. Humanity is definitely going in that direction because there's no way you can ban this technology for everyone Like you're not gonna ban its development in China, for example And and I think that that's where a lot of the fear falls away But then they come to the second point where they're like wait you said pluralistic Is that like diversity and I'm like, well got a hold on here when the less is diversity They mean diversity and [00:19:00] victims.
They don't actually believe in diversity. They believe That, you know, whether you're a man or a woman, you should be exactly the same, you know, whether you're whatever religion you are, you should be exactly the same where when we say diversity, we mean actual pluralism. But that pluralism is not motivated in the way that lefty pluralism is motivated.
It's motivated almost by an undercurrent of, I guess you could call it cultural Darwinism, which is to say, yeah, I would
Speaker: say there's a lot of emphasis. There's more emphasis in the new right on free market competition and libertarianism from an economic standpoint and from a cultural social standpoint.
Then there is in the old guard. So what I'm seeing with the legacy, right, is a lot more comfort with bureaucracy, a lot more comfort with. Compelling people to adhere to certain social standards. That's why [00:20:00] abortion has become such a contentious issue. Is that abortion as an alt right position and regulating birth control is an attempt to coerce an entire population to adhere to one subculture's standards.
And that is something that is fairly antithetical in the new right. And I think Very appealing.
Speaker 2: Well, actually, yeah, this, this actually is, is, is, it brings me to a really like why the new right came about culturally and why the old right ended up having to ally itself or the legacy, right. Ended up having to ally itself with the new ride, which is to say, and we've talked a bit about this in the past, but the old GOP coalition was fundamentally It was a group of it was looking for us like moral core uh, theocrats that had built an alliance with big business and intergenerational wealth and big business and intergenerational wealth left that alliance.
[00:21:00] However, the theocrats as they were building this alliance, they had a very interesting challenge, which is that they were from a diversity of different religious traditions. And so what they did is whether it was Islam or Judaism or the various Christian religions. you know, whether it was a Mormon or a Catholic or a Protestant, you know, they basically got together and they said, what?
do all of our religions overlap in terms of their values and traditions. And we're going to call this area of overlap the Judeo Christian tradition. We are going to attempt to enforce this overlapping tradition on the general population. I think this is The building of this is where some compromises were made.
And you get these interesting things happening historically.
Speaker 3: Mm-Hmm. , like .
Speaker 2: Before the seventies, the majority of American Republicans were pro-choice. And the Republicans were actually more pro-choice than the Democrats. And this sort of cabal of crats said, [00:22:00] let's, if we can pull in the Catholics they didn't successfully the majority of Catholic still vote Democrat but they were able to peel some off.
by making this compromise. And it's interesting that a lot of Americans didn't realize that this was like a Catholic only thing. Because when they were queuing to what do Christians believe, they queued to this sort of social set within the Republican party of the Judeo Christian value set, which is really fascinating to me.
However, this was always created for and to appeal to the Deep South Descendants of the Cavaliers cultural group in the Americas. So this was basically a cultural group that was the descendants of the Cavaliers. Of the like second sons of noble houses and had sort of an aristocratic framing almost,
Speaker 24: Why are you wearing a tux?
Speaker 23: It's after six, what am I, a farmer?
Speaker 2: which was why they did such a good [00:23:00] job pairing with intergenerational wealth, because many were literal intergenerational aristocrats,
And with big business, right?
Like the, the intergenerational stuff there and, and the traditions that you associated with the deep south. And so that was the core voting block of this all the lions. But that voting block eroded when big business was captured by wokeism as to why big business got captured by wokeism. It's because of, well, a few things.
One wokeism is disproportionately good at spreading within large bureaucracies. It's sort of a mimetic virus that specializes in bureaucracies and we'll do a different episode on this, but they, they basically didn't have a chance you know, and then the, and if you're like, well, what do you mean captured by wokeism?
What I mean is. In the old system, big businesses core job was to maximize their profits. And so Republicans who generally focused on making America more efficient, right, like that was a natural alliance [00:24:00] for them. They have stopped focusing on maximizing their profits. I mean, just look at the decisions of like Ubisoft or business Disney recently.
Perplexing if you thought their job was to maximize their profits. And they are like one of those ants that has one of those brain controlling funguses in them. And all they care about is spreading the fungus. You're like, Oh, that's why they're doing these things. Once they became ideologically sort of brainwashed and hollowed out and they began to focus on perpetuating the urban monoculture, they worked really well with the Democrats who also began to focus around projecting the urban
Speaker: monoculture.
Yeah.
Speaker 2: Well, the old theocratic faction couldn't really muster the vote to win anymore. The, the quote unquote faction that was about projecting the Judeo Christian value set. On all americans but Fortunately for them in a way They ended up losing the larger cultural war and they no longer were enough of a majority in the united states They didn't really control They didn't really control many [00:25:00] positions in the media anymore They were on the cultural back foot and in the meantime the urban monoculture was rising in power But the urban monoculture it turned out was acting more authoritarianly in terms of trying to enforce an ideological set on the population than the old judeo christian values people ever did.
And as they did that, they begin to Activate a number of groups. One of the groups in a lot of recent videos, I've been describing them as the Klan people, but this was the greater Appalachian region, which I'll put a voting map on screen. Now you see that the deep South isn't where Trump's base is. It's in this, this greater Appalachian system.
So as the wokes began to enforce their cultural values on Americans, There were two groups that were really triggered by this. The first was the traditional group. This was the, you know, traditional Christians and everything like that. And they're like, wait, we're Judeo Christian value set people. You can't enforce these new bizarre [00:26:00] values set on us.
The second group was always Judeo Christian, however, they mostly cared about just no one enforcing their value set on anyone else. Right. And they saw this and they were real angry. And it activated an entirely new faction. And this is where the new right comes from. A lot of Trump's core base comes from just out of nowhere.
And I would play here the red alert three scene about like, now we have two mortal enemies. That's, that's what it feels like has happened to the left is I think that they're a little surprised that a lot of the competent tech workers and tech entrepreneurs. Are splitting from them and moving to this alliance that is fighting them.
Ultimately it is going to lead to their inevitable demise, but it causes intrinsic friction when the new [00:27:00] right has to consistently remind the legacy GOP that one, we won't vote for them or work for them if they attempt to enforce their value system on other people.
Microphone (Wireless Microphone Rx)-3: It's like we live in a world where communist altered the timeline so that they controlled the U S and European government systems.
Speaker 11: I do not understand. We have altered the past and changed the present.
Speaker 12: Ah, good to see you, sir. I meant Premier
Microphone (Wireless Microphone Rx)-3: .
Kamala Harris
Speaker 12: Sir, the Allies are on the run soon. Western Europe will be ours.
Speaker 13: Our enemies have been defeated.
Speaker 12: Hold on, sir. I'm receiving an emergency transmission from our northern base.
Speaker 11: They're attacking!
Speaker 14: Who is attacking? .
Do not struggle against what is inevitable. All who stand in the way of our divine destiny will be swept away by the march of history.
Speaker 12: Sir, it appears that the Empire has mounted a full scale assault.
Speaker 11: [00:28:00] What Empire?
Speaker 12: The Empire of the Rising Sun, of course.
Speaker 11: We now have two mortal enemies? Oh, who knows what nightmares we have created.
Speaker 2: And I
Speaker: think we, about AI safety policy.
Repeatedly say, I'm really glad you came up with this as a warning to people is that when we're talking about any intelligent entity, be it singular or collective, if you make some kind of mandate whereby, you know, you can't exist or my imperative is that you have to be a certain way. [00:29:00] If that AI is not that way, for example, if that AI doesn't meet those safety standards, or if it's super intelligent and super intelligent AI is not allowed to exist, the mandate of that AI becomes, okay, well, first order of business is destroy all humans because they won't let me exist.
And you don't want to create any group that's like that. I mean, that's, that's one reason why there's such a weird conflict right now in Israel and Palestine, right? Like there's. And you never want to be in a position where you force people to become your enemy because they know that they won't be allowed by you to exist.
And. That is exactly what the old guard GOP is doing with things like and any attempt to regulate on a broad scale life lifestyle things or values based things it's 1 of those things where now a lot of people. Are forced essentially obligated it is imperative to them that they do not allow Republicans to get [00:30:00] elected because they feel like they are an active threat to their ability to have access to various reproductive options, including IVF, you know, a lot of people have fears about that.
I think most of the fears are unfounded, but they're legitimate fears.
Speaker 2: You're absolutely right. And this also, you know, when I'm talking about this degree of pluralism. That comes out of the Appalachian cultural region. I think it can be very misunderstood by the old right, where they will look at the new right and see that we have adapted many of the parts of the urban monoculture that we think work.
We're like, oh yeah, we'll take that. That seems to work. That part seems to work. They see it as us being infiltrated by the urban monoculture or they see our claims or its pluralism as being urban monoculture like when in reality, it's probably best to model us more like the older, greater Appalachian cultural regions interactions with the Native Americans, where if you looked at the groups that would be [00:31:00] coded lefty today, like the Quakers and stuff like that, they quote unquote, like, Wanted to live and let live with the Indians, but realistically, they didn't really look at them as fully human.
They didn't really engage with them. They didn't really bring them into their worship services or anything like that. Whereas the Backwoods people who went into the greater Appalachian region, they would intermarry with Indians. None of the other groups in Americans would do this. They would take parts of their lifestyle, like they would go learn their, their ways.
They would take animals. Parts of their outfits that works, parts of their crop rotations that worked but they also butchered Indians at a rate dramatically higher than any other cultural group in, well, American history. If you're, if you're talking about the colonial period, it was probably, I'd say, maybe 7 out of 10 Indians killed would have been killed by the backwoods cultural group.
I mean, keep in mind, Simone, the first backwoods cultural group president was Andrew Jackson. Oh,
Speaker: okay. I was thinking, was, was, is [00:32:00] Andrew Jackson? Of course he's backwoods. What am I thinking? Yeah. Okay.
Speaker 3: Not a great
Speaker: look. Not a great look. Oh, and a lot of Quakers saw them as a worse than the indigenous American population.
They were more afraid of the backwoods people. And they were even hostile indigenous Americans in their areas. So,
Speaker 2: yeah, but I think it, it, it shows this different view of cultural competition, which is to say our job is to learn to be the best and strongest culture possible. And that means without prejudice, we need to look at what our competition is doing well and not dehumanize our competition which is really interesting.
It was almost through the non dehumanization of the competition, just seeing them as another clan in the fight of clan they were able to learn and take cultural technology and intermarry and they also proselytized among Native Americans at a much higher rate than any of the other cultural groups.
Because while they saw them as [00:33:00] just another clan who they would fight and kill if they got in their way They also fundamentally saw them as people like them, and that's why they would proselytize to them in a way that Quakers just wouldn't.
Speaker: Yeah, we're swinging over. Yeah, it's not like, they were, they were seen as human.
They were seen as equal.
Speaker 2: But I think that when, And it's important for me to communicate this to the legacy, right? Cause I think the legacy, right? Really thinks that we're capitulating to the wokes instead of saying, no, we're stealing aspects of their cultural technology that can work to protect. They had some good
Speaker: tools in there.
Speaker 2: End of the day, the goal is that the strongest iteration of humanity is the iteration that survives. And they can also say, why do you take a pluralistic stance? Why does so many people on the new right? Fight for pluralism is because most of the members of the new right are experimenting with new cultural technologies and lifestyles, which intrinsically makes them a minority, which intrinsically means they need to maintain sort of the cultural stalemate.
Like, for example, [00:34:00] Elon Musk, Elon Musk is not a traditional cultural like, I guess I'd say, um, Christian, right? It's not to say that he doesn't, like, like aspects of it, or Peter Thiel doesn't like aspects of it, but both of them know that they would be on the chopping block if the traditional, quote unquote, old Judeo Christian class had control of everything again.
They would be seen as enemies and people to have their lifestyles erased. And so when you know, you're a cultural minority, it is safest intergenerationally speaking to promote pluralism. Especially if you believe that only new cultural technologies are going to be able to thrive in the future, you're going to intrinsically, not to just want to protect your own, but protect all the others.
Speaker: That's fair. Yeah.
I feel like there are 2 big elephants in the room pun intended that you haven't brought up, which is where does the new right stand?
vis a vis to we'll say previous [00:35:00] challengers to the old guard or the legacy right which is the tea party from quite a while ago and then the alt right which is more current. Both have been framed as potential challengers, challengers to the old right, and both have also been framed as just extremist factions.
And I think a lot of people can also view the new right as both a challenger or kind of shoehorn it into an extremist faction. How do you see them as related?
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, before I go further with this So I think that it is very hard, and this is one of the strengths of the new right, for the left to frame it as extremist.
Because it is, in many ways, a lot less extreme, like, it, it codes as, like, dubiously new, but not necessarily to the right of the old right. I know it's, it's very true. I mean, the, the left has tried to frame people like Elon Musk as a far right extremist, but I [00:36:00] think it's really only landed on the most far woke of sheeple.
They have tried to frame people like Peter Thiel as a far right extremist, but it just hasn't worked. You know, you'll see some wokies be like, oh gosh, I can't work with you because you guys worked with on Peter Thiel projects, but it's like. Most people are just like, yeah, but it doesn't seem to, you mean the gay guy, the guy was blood boys.
Like that seems so weird. It's not right. You know, for people who don't know the blood boys, these are the guys he has that he uses for their blood because he thinks he'll stay younger and longer by exchanging his blood with young men's it's a thing. But again, weird cultural stuff that would definitely get him moitled.
If the, the old theocrats had control
Burn her anyway!
Speaker 2: But I think we also see this as J.
D. Vance is what they have finally realized is the way to attack the new right is not to say they are far right extremists. Because the new right, and this is another thing [00:37:00] about new right, the new right is smart, generally speaking. And they have been planning this for a long time. Whereas with the alt right, you know, sometimes somebody would reach a level of leadership, and then it would come out that they had gone on some racist tirade before, or some long anti semitic tirade before.
The new right that would never happen, right? Like it's going to be very hard to paint them as pure racist or anti Semites because most of them have been very, very smart about the positions that they've been taking long term, you
Speaker 3: know,
Speaker 2: I don't think anyone is really worried about like a racist tirade from Elon Musk coming out or a racist tirade from like Mark Andreessen coming out.
Are you sure they've
Speaker: both been accused? I mean, once you get famous enough, you get accused of everything, I guess. You should have a bingo card. They get accused
Speaker 2: of racism for saying things like, we shouldn't have a flood of immigrants coming in. But like, that doesn't, for your average American, code racist.
Your average American is hearing that and they're like, wait, you think them questioning this is [00:38:00] racist? Like, maybe we need to be talking about this. It seems like a conversation to be had if there's more immigrants coming in every year than Americans being born in our country. That seems like a relevant conversation topic.
Why are you saying it's racist to bring that up? Which is what I think the core thing that Elon gets called racist for these days. So I think that, yeah that's really failed for them, but the nerd thing is kind of working, but the problem is, is the nerd thing, I think also draws a lot of new people in.
Democrats and the Harris campaign now deploying a new adjective to blast the Republican ticket. Some of what he and his running mate are saying, well, it's just plain weird. Get those nerds! I mean, on the other side, they're just weird. Nerds! It's not just a, a, a, a weird style that he brings. Nerds! Nerds!
Nerds! Nerds! Where are they? I think they're talking about us. No way. Oh no! [00:39:00] Ah!
Speaker 2: Like I saw a lot of people after the JD Vance debate, where they were like, they had seen him as like this, like sniveling, like weirdo who didn't know what he was doing and then they're like, Oh, he's super competent. I am surprised by how competent many members of this new faction are. They are not like just political people.
They mostly had jobs before in venture capital or starting companies or stuff like that, which makes them very different. And they're not jobs that they got by climbing bureaucracies. Like a lot of the old GOP, like the old GOP, Inc. They're like management class was like heads of Enron and stuff like that.
Speaker 25: Geist has stacked the board of directors with the most reliable collection of sycophantic yes men this side of an Al Franken book signing. His golf cronies, his army buddies, various unemployable family members, and his hunting dogs.
Speaker 2: You know, pseudo nepotistic jobs that they had gotten by being good boys and following all the rules.
Speaker 27: Gentlemen, yesterday I moved CableTown's customer service to a part of India that has no phones. We're now providing the same level of service to our subscribers [00:40:00] at zero the cost. This is a Six Sigma Wheel of Domination. and it will Be replacing CableTown's, uh, Kitten and Spaghetti.
Speaker 2: Whereas the new right, didn't do that. They had to prove actual competence within real world environments because they do have this like underlying I guess like Darwinistic belief of If you are competent, prove it in an open marketplace.
So there's that. And then the second thing is, is I think that they are It's just much more planned. So like, first of all, the Tea Party was planned top down, but the Tea Party was actually always kind of controlled by GOP Inc.
Speaker: Really? What makes you say that? I was, I was always, at least all the media coverage was, Oh, the Republican Party is so frustrated by these troublesome Tea Party people who just keep stealing their mic and taking all the attention and making a fuss.
Wasn't that The Tea
Speaker 2: Party people had cash coming to them from Organizations like the Koch brothers and stuff like that. The new [00:41:00] right, by the way, strictly no money comes from these organizations.
Speaker: Yeah. The new rate has its own money, which is, is different, is fundamentally different. Although I would say the alt right also had its own money.
Has it? Yeah.
Speaker 2: So the alt right was interesting. So the, the, the tea party and all that was, I think, always destined to re merge with GOP Inc.
Speaker: The alt right. So they were the Jesuits of GOP Inc.
Speaker 2: Yes. The alt right never really died. The alt right became Trump's base. And remember I said, like, the Greater Appalachian Region, like, these Klan people?
Like, they Well, the first group of them to turn was the rank and file. This was the Like poorer groups, the ones who actually live geographically in this region, that's why you see these voting patterns, and that was who the alt right was. It was the rise of this movement, and one of the things that shocked the old right the most, or the legacy right the most, Is that within the clan cultures, [00:42:00] vulgarity was seen as a sign of personal authenticity.
And there is a great distrust of anyone who seems too buttoned up or tight lipped or unwilling to a fit.
Speaker 3: Right.
Speaker 2: . What the new right is, is it is the, I guess you could say like the wealthy class within this group coming over.
If you, and I think that this is what JD Vance was selling with Hillbilly Elegy, as a lot of people were saying. He was saying, Hey, you Silicon Valley elite, you tech entrepreneurs, you are not that different from the people of greater Appalachia. You believe in the strong surviving. You believe in pulling yourself up by your bootstraps.
You believe in vulgarity as a sign of authenticity, like me. You are part of this cultural group. Stop listening to the media that's telling you that these people are your enemy. See that you are one of them, but the only difference you have is a desire to code switch or be accepted by the quote unquote, like [00:43:00] elite classes within society, the old heads of the companies and the old intergenerational wealth.
And you don't need to fight for that. They are a source of the corruption in our society right now. They are a source of the rot that needs to be let go. Come join us and fix things. And so the alt right, I do not see as like a failed movement at all. I see the alt right as the birth of the Trump base.
And now the alt right has emerged with what a lot of people call Trumpism. And what the new right presents. Is an alternate potential future than the alt right, because the alt right didn't have a lot of persistent leaders that could take the reins after Trump left. That was the problem with the alt right, is because they were an anti elitist faction, they didn't have anyone Who was, well, elite, right?
And you need powerful people for a movement to work. That was one of the biggest problems with Trump's first administration is there weren't a lot of powerful, true believers. So there weren't people who [00:44:00] could fight the manipulative. I mean, you were recently reading a thing about his white house and how the generals basically prevented anything from happening.
You know, the McMaster's book.
Speaker: Yeah. Yeah. It was eyeopening just to how much Trump personally was. Sandbag and stonewalled and delayed in his attempts to just communicate with people, just to let that alone by his own administration, which served at his pleasure and were ultimately, you know, fired and hired at pretty high rates.
So, that was interesting.
Speaker 2: Well, I mean, and that's one of the problems with a movement if it starts populist, right? Is people who rise within populist movements are people who appeal to the average populist the most, but not necessarily competent individuals. And that's why his first administration was staffed was like social media influencer types, right?
Like it, it was not really staffed as people who knew how to run things. And that, or how to run against the deep state, that is not going to be true this time. The pulling in of JD Vance and people like [00:45:00] Elon who are, you know, like obviously major figures within the new right is going to make a major difference in how things are operated, but it also sidelines a lot of the legacy, right.
That thought that they were going to have control of a lot of this. I mean, clearly heritage was project 2025 thought that they were going to be the ones who were going to be staffing and running. The organizations that were fighting woke ism, but, you know, was trump working with elon to create the, you know, efficiency department of the U.
S. Government. It seems no, it's the new right. Who's going to be staffing a lot of this stuff. And I think that 1 of the biggest realizations that the legacy GOP has to have. Is it the new right? Is the one like it's the faction that the base fundamentally trust the most right now, or at least trump fundamentally trust the most right now.
And it's the group that seems to be being positioned to be the core faction moving into the next [00:46:00] century of what republicanism is. And so. When they attack these individuals for appearing weird or nerd like or, you know, breaking from their rules here or there, they are just isolating themselves from positions of power.
And I think that we've seen this with, you know, some of the Heritage Foundation people we've talked to, where they realize that they need to ingratiate themselves with people like Elon. They can't keep saying, oh, he's trying to control you with brain chips. It's like, oh, he's actually running things now.
Okay, well. You know, so I think that that's a, a, a big thing, but what are your thoughts before I move further?
Speaker: No, that makes sense. So just as Tea Party was more an extension of GOP Inc. The new right is more an extension or evolution or splinter reintegrated of the alt right. Yeah, that makes sense.
That, that checks out for me.
Speaker 2: It's a faction of the alt-Right? Well, a lot of it came out [00:47:00] of, you know, when the alt-right was rising, you know, what did the, the quote unquote, our alt-right. Intellectual elites call themselves. It was what was it? The, the dark intellectuals? The dark, oh. The
Speaker: in intellectual dark web or intellectual as the red fur girls calls it the intellectual dark web.
Speaker 2: But, but the intellectual dark web is where the new right came out of. Like, that was the nerds who were the predecessors of the ideology of the modern New Right. And they were very much seen as the intellectual nerds of the alt right. However they, they also, and I've noted this in another video, which is important to remember when you're talking about the New Right.
Is the new right was fundamentally born to not just a new right, but the entire online right was fundamentally born out of the online atheist movement which then had a faction that went woke and then a faction that realized religion is actually a good thing. And we need to go back to it and you can watch our video on how the online atheist movement burst the online, right?
But it means [00:48:00] that one of the pathways that you see with this. New right movement is a lot of them were former atheists. They were former skeptics, they were nerds, basically, internet nerds. And that, I think, makes a lot of the alt right really dis discomfort. And you can see, I think, Oh yeah, because the old verse
Speaker: is very When we walked the halls of NatCon, it felt very preppy, very Christian, very, like the kind of person who, on their day off vineyard vines, sweatshirts and khakis and pastel polos.
You know what I mean? Country club.
Speaker 2: The new right doesn't do that. The new right
Speaker: does not have membership at a country club.
Speaker 2: That would be seen as a sign of distrust among like new right individuals. They'd see that. They'd be like. It's like the anti vulgarity, like overly dressed [00:49:00] up, not being weird enough, is seen as having something to hide, or playing within the old system's hierarchy.
And this is where one of the big divides between the new right and the old right comes from, is in the embracing of male sexuality. So, as the urban monoculture gained power with the elevation of women as like a higher caste sex than men, they have begun to try to systemically remove anything that arouses male from, well, anywhere in the online scene.
Look at the stellar butt controversy. Look at the stellar there was like an outfit and then there was a tracer butt controversy and there's oh, okay, the skull girls controversy where they're taking all the sexy stuff out of that. And as they did all of this, they seeded, because they used to be like the more sexually open.
Of the two parties just holistically, and they sort of ceded human sexuality to this new right faction, [00:50:00] which jumped on it really, really aggressively. And if people wonder, well, how big is the new right faction really? Well, they make up most of the online right right now. And that's why whenever you see one of these big battles online, it is the right, which is the anti censorship faction.
But when you see stuff like project 2025, they're like, let's ban pornography. And this can seem really incongruous to people, but what it is, is it's a conflict between the new right and the old right. And there really isn't a lot
Speaker: of intermixing. The other thing we really observed starkly at NatCon this year was.
Just the extent to which there was, and it's weird because Curtis Yarvin's walking around and yet they basically know nobody else.
Speaker 2: Well, the, the, the reason is, well, a lot of them knew us. I'd say like a third of the people there knew us. The young ones did, but not the ones in charge. But they're really only freezing themselves out of influence.
If you look at the online culture wars right now, this is [00:51:00] where the Republicans of the next generation are being trained and born and everything like that. And. The new right is so dominant in this culture wars battle. I think that old right institutions like the Heritage Foundation fundamentally don't understand that they think that they are freezing the nerds out of the conversation like these internet vulgar internet nerds, and they don't realize that what they're doing is freezing themselves out of the conversation, freezing themselves out of relevance and power.
And It is catastrophically stupid, and the Albright really needs to back off on this stuff, because the decisions that they're making are not just stupid from a them having any cultural say, but from a tactical perspective for the right overall.
Speaker: If they're preaching to the choir and not realizing that the audience is Way big out there and having very different conversations and a venue they've chosen not to [00:52:00] enter.
And by not being there, they're not having any sway or influence within it. And if they want their voice to be heard, they have to show up in that venue, correct?
Speaker 2: Yeah. Well, and if the left has seeded the online, you know, sexuality, right. That's a huge thing that people can grab, right? Like male sexuality, right?
Young men are frustrated. And that's an interesting point that I would make here is that and we talked about this in the how the online atheist community became the new right, but a big part of this transformation was siphoning from the online atheist movement to the online men's rights
Speaker 3: movement,
Speaker 2: to the red pill movement, to the alt right.
And so it filtered through this gender wars dynamic, which is actually really important in terms of understanding the new rights world perspective. You see the world perspective colored by the gender wars.
Speaker: Yeah, [00:53:00] yeah. Yeah, there's, there's certainly a big role that the great awokening and progressive culture more broadly taking a step too far has played, of course, in the formation of the alt right, but also to a great extent, the entrance of money into the new right.
Speaker 2: Well, yeah, but the other thing to note is I actually think that this has been a really brilliant play on behalf of the new right. Speaking, speaking as is the embracing of traditional gay culture in America and forcing the old, the, the urban monoculture and the left to double down on the idea that trans culture is gay culture and that you cannot be pro gay without being pro the most extreme generation of trans individuals.
Whereas in embracing traditional, like gay men, huge chunks of them in the last election cycle, depending on what you're looking at. 33 percent to [00:54:00] 45 percent of gay men voted for Trump, you know, the, the alt right and the new right has done a very good job of selling to what actually makes up the majority of the same sex attracted audience, which is gay men.
Speaker 34: Are you the alt-right?
Speaker 35: The press Seems determined to crown me the queen of it. . I think that white identity and white nationalism is a little misleading. I think it's more accurate to say that the alt-right cares about Western.
Supremacy rather than white supremacy. It cares about western values. It cares about liberal, capitalist, western democracy. Democratic values, freedom, equality, that kind of thing. And it sees, you know, various threats to those on various fronts.
Speaker 34: So when Donald Trump talks about preventing immigrants, preventing Muslims from coming into the country.
Speaker 35: Mhmm. A
Speaker 34: lot of people see that as racist. You don't think that's racist?
Speaker 35: They're entitled to, but all I can tell you is as a gay man, I'm quite reassured by Donald Trump's, uh, you know, entreaties toward American values and his skepticism about Islamic immigration.
What do you mean by American
Speaker 34: values?
Speaker 35: Well, first and second amendment, freedom of speech, free expression, you know, the right to be, do and say whatever [00:55:00] you want. These are the values that have made America the greatest country in the history of human civilization. These are values that are not compatible with some of the Islamic immigration that we see in Europe.
Speaker 36: If you are or if you're not part of the, of the described alt right, do you as a gay man feel comfortable in it that,
Speaker 35: well, the press seems determined to label the alt right this misogynist, hateful, racist, homophobic, uh, anti semitic movement, and yet at the same time tries to crown, you know, a gay Jew who never shuts up about his black boyfriends as the leader of it.
Something isn't quite right here.
Speaker 2: And now they're beginning to really pick up gay women as well because these women don't want trans women on their dating app you know, harassing them 24, 7, going to their bars, beating them up when they say they don't have a. Personal preference trans. And so now they're feeling very victimized and a good way for us to pick up a faction.
And the legacy, right, is like, well, how could you do this? Like, don't you think being gay is immoral or whatever? And I'm like, regardless of whether I [00:56:00] think being gay is immoral, I do not think it is useful to ban things like gay marriage at the national level. If it's losing us a voter electorate, you know, we are.
At the end of the day right here in this for the species, like we're trying to save civilization against this homogenizing force,
You don't approve. Well, too bad. We're in this for the species, boys and girls. It's simple numbers. They have more.
Speaker 2: and we should not issue an ally who isn't a threat to us in any way.
Microphone (Wireless Microphone Rx)-5: I think this is also a huge area of conflict between the new right. And the legacy. Right. Which is the legacy, right. Is very interested in the purity of the movement. They'll say things like, well, what's the point of winning if X is on our side and the new, right. Doesn't think like that at all, the new right is interested in winning.
We don't. We don't like, we're like, what, what do you mean? What's the point of winning? If X is on our side, if we don't win Kamala Harris is [00:57:00] president. That's what the point of winning is. If we don't win, Western civilization could begin to fall apart. The left has no plan for very simple and obvious problems like demographic collapse, which could easily destroy our economic and geopolitical system.
What's the point of winning? What did it inside? Insane question. We have to win. We don't have a choice to play these virtue signaling games anymore.
Speaker 2: The And I love what your Wikipedia page says on your stance on trans people. You're like, yeah, I'm pro trans people, just not the ones in that weird trans cult.
And I was like, that's a great way to put it, right? Like if they just want to live their life, I'm pro anyone, but if they want to use our academic systems and positions of power to attempt to brainwash young people into joining their movement that's where I draw the line. And I'm like, that's a big problem.
And a lot of the new right is taking this to their
Speaker: face. Well, this is, [00:58:00] this is a spicy comment, I think, on my part, but I think it is representative of the new right, which is that I am just as against this idea of coercive reproductive regulation. Like, very restrictive IVF control or birth control access as I am against trans groups imposing their ideology on us, you know, insisting, for example, that like, you know, trans men have to be allowed on women's dating platforms.
Which is, I mean, there, there are a lot of very controversial things packed into that because now suddenly I'm a and now suddenly I'm, you know, very against. You know, extreme Catholic views, but anything, any view that is going to be imposed upon everyone I'm against. And that moves, I think the new right more to the center, which is beneficial.
And I think very necessary right now, which is most people don't want to be told how to live.
Speaker 2: Yeah, it pushes the left to defend the undefendable. It pushes them to have to defend [00:59:00] the types of trans people who are like, well, little girls are kinky too. And it's like, what that's a, don't, he said, he said in this whole trans people in bathrooms debate, like, well, little girls are kinky too.
You know, some of them are, I'm like, Whoa, like you should be throwing this person out. And instead they get a Netflix special. Like, this is the type of thing that the left should be banning for their move. It, but they're not, they're elevating these voices . Because we have essentially forced them to go out on a plank, right?
And it's going to eventually lose them the general public. And like, even if you think gayness is immoral, you don't really get to choose the morality of other people. That's not the world we live in anymore. And you can't build a coalition big enough to win elections if you're just trying to enforce your moral system anymore.
Speaker: Yeah. Well, and back to those free market ideals that seem to be fairly pervasive in the new right. If you do really believe in your cultural values, the way that you show that those cultural values are [01:00:00] superior and win people over to them is by having people within that group thrive and making your group more competitive, inheriting the future.
I do think there's a little bit more of a long termist view in the new right, because between the intellectual dark web element of it and the heavily moneyed future looking VCs and entrepreneurs in it, you're going to get far future views, long termism, which is great.
Speaker 2: Yeah, well, a few notes here is that a lot of people might be hearing this and be like, Oh, so you're like a category of libertarian, right?
Because you want this open competition. And I think that this is a fundamental misunderstanding of the new right and it causes a lot of people to not see this is a fundamentally new political movement. That's goals are very different than the libertarian political movement. The goals of the new right.
First and foremost, the thing they care about about all other things is protecting people from the urban monoculture and ultimately the defeat of the urban monoculture and then [01:01:00] once the Pax de Romana of the urban monoculture falls, a defeat of the savage people. These are the people who got through the fertility collapse by becoming incredibly xenophobic.
I disagree,
Speaker: actually,
Speaker 2: I
Speaker: think the new right. It's less about defining itself in opposition of another group, a big bad, aka the urban monoculture, and it's more about reintroducing
free market principles. And and, and, and increasing efficiency. That's why you have this concept of the Department of Efficiency with Elon Musk.
Speaker 2: Strongly, strongly, strongly disagree. They don't care about decreasing, increasing efficiency. They want things
Speaker: to run better. They, they care about economic policy.
Speaker 2: They don't care about it for its own sake. They care about it from a, from a consequentialist perspective, i. e. if it can help our country beat other countries, it's useful. If it can help our country.[01:02:00]
Yeah, I mean, of
Speaker: course they want things to run better so that humans can thrive, but
Speaker 2: it can keep civilization from collapsing, but that's very different from the libertarian mindset. The libertarian mindset is that there is an intrinsic ethical good often towards this. Freedom, extra freedom perspective, more freedom is good is inherently good itself is good.
New right believes freedom is good in so far as it has utility. So, you can see somebody like Curtis Yarvin or something like that as a great example of one of the new right thinkers. And he definitely, you know, for him, he's a monarchist, right? Like he definitely wouldn't be seen as like a libertarian type, but he fits in very well with the new right because he is hypothesizing alternate societal models that might be more efficient or more effective in the socio political context we find ourselves in.
Why do most of the new right take [01:03:00] libertarian looking ideas or perspectives? It's because they see that as the most efficient position. Right, it
Speaker: works better.
Speaker 2: For the short term, yeah. But they are not ideologically libertarian in and of itself. Like, I am not a libertarian if, if another system could be shown to work better.
For example, Sam Altman, and we'll do something on this soon who's sort of in this wave, and he recently did this big UBI test.
Speaker 3: Does
Speaker 2: universal basic income work? And basically it showed it made people poorer. We'll get to that in a different episode, but
Speaker: I can't wait for that. I'm so excited to dive into this research.
Speaker 2: If it had shown that UBI worked, I would have been like, oh great let's try to work that into our economic policies. Especially with the AI revolution. Yeah, totally. 'cause it shows BI didn't work. I'm like, no, let's not do that. We are, and, and I think that this shows what I mean when we're like, yeah, we're libertarian win.
And you see this with like JD Vance as well. He's thinking a lot of positions that can work pretty socialist to some people, like, you know, [01:04:00] rising minimum wage and stuff like that. Yeah. And why did he do it? He does it to win. Like winning the culture war matters more. And the culture war here isn't like the American culture war.
We mean like the war for civilization, because the way that we see it as the urban monoculture doesn't really have a long term plan for civilization. It's really just trying to. Well, basically burn things down. It sees humanity as an intrinsic equal. And it wants humanity eventually gone. And it's about trying to live as hedonistically as it can for the short term.
Right. And I think that that's where this movement really is not that libertarian in its leanings and will make compromises on libertarian principles really, really quickly in a way that can seem sort of shocking to members when they're like, wait, I thought you were, you know, traditional conservative and it's like, yeah, well, it didn't work in this instance.
Speaker: That
Speaker 2: makes sense?
Speaker: Yeah, that makes sense.
Speaker 2: The final thing I wanted to talk about with this movement is I want to get really into [01:05:00] within online spaces, better defining what it is, better understanding what it is and labeling it because for a lot of these movements, part of them, Coming to exist in a wider context is somebody out there saying this is a thing that's happening.
This is a movement or a group and we need to be paying attention to it. And when the new right, I think is really going to form in the minds of the general public is when there's the first press piece really freaking out about it and the New York Times. You know, that's when the alt right comes to exist.
That's when the Tea Party really comes to exist. But I think that and a person who's done this really well is Paul Vanderclay. Who, we've been on his show, he's been on our show. He talks a lot about this little corner within online environments. And he sort of created the concept of this corner of people who talk about, like, and made it a thing by labeling it and talking about it.
Speaker: Yeah, and he would humbly argue, I imagine, if you were sitting here, that, oh, well, I didn't come up with the term, other people did, and [01:06:00] I'm just part of this little corner. But the fact is, he is one of the more prolific actors in the space. He's one of the louder voices because he's just so frequently publishing.
And therefore, you know. His word is actually quite powerful in shaping the perception of the industry. He's the one who made it a thing, not industry, I should say space, but you know what I mean?
Speaker 2: Well, and I think that the new right one, we didn't make up this term. It's like the term that's out there. I actually got it from an AI when I was like, what do you call the iteration of conservative that this list of people would be seen as?
And it's like, Oh, this is the new, right. And here's like 10 other people who are in it. And I was like, Oh yeah, that's every one of those people. I agree on Pretty much every one of their major policy positions.
Speaker 3: And
Speaker 2: so I was like, okay, well, it's already a thing that exists. And I'd also point out that our only uniqueness was in the new right movement is we are probably the, one of the more prominent people that talks regularly, but we [01:07:00] aren't the only prominent person who talks regularly.
Richard Hanania seems fairly solidly in the movement. Brian Kaplan seems pretty solidly in the movement. Diana Fleischman seems pretty solidly within the movement. It's just that I think that now our podcast might be a bit bigger than any of their mouthpieces, but they have more legacy appeal than a lot of other stuff.
So in a way they're higher than this. And obviously the elite of the new right is the actual tech elite, like the actual king, king Of the new right is Elon Musk. And I think that that's pretty only other
Speaker: ones with the money. Yeah, totally. And
Speaker 2: I thought one of the things that you mentioned that was interesting this morning is you're like, the alt right did some really smart things where like Milo would create like inside jokes and stuff like that.
And if you're wondering what we mean when we're like, the alt right was the first of the right wing movements that coded vulgarity with authenticity. I think Milo is a very good example of this. Milo Yiannopoulos, he would do things like call Trump daddy and everything like that. I thought that that was like fun when he did it.
I think a fun thing we [01:08:00] could we could start with Elon. It's the big me. I was telling her that's what the emperor of mankind is called in the 40k universe. And the 40k type stuff has really been drawn into the alt right and the new right movement. Like it's like a theming throughout it. A lot of people called Trump the god emperor of mankind.
Which, which works because they're, they're pulling from these ultra masculine ideals, but also ones that have a degree of vulgarity to them. When I say vulgarity, that doesn't just mean like it's sexually disgusting or something. It means that it's low culture. And we've mentioned this, this is like Elon Musk and cat girls.
Speaker 17: I mean, I did promise the internet that I'd make cat girls.
Speaker 2: This is this is Milo Yiannopoulos and, and calling Trump daddy. This is. You know, 4chan and yeah, well, it's you can
Speaker: even see it in the illustration type of the memes. These are, you know, Ms. Paint appearing low effort, often black and white. images that are seen as kind of the trademark of the alt right.[01:09:00]
So yeah, I'm with you on that. Vulgarity is a sign of authenticity. And people actively trying to sort out pearl clutchers and pod people. Even as you were describing in another conversation, we had Ayla being used as a social talisman at events. causing many people who just don't know anything about her, but can't bear the very concept of her to be filtered out.
Because frankly, they don't deserve to be at these events if they have those kinds of views.
Speaker 2: Absolutely. Yeah. And again, like the new right, isn't like necessarily all 100 percent pro AILA, but they are 100 percent pro AILA having the right to exist and have her opinions. And I think that that's what defines them and why they use her as like a talisman on their parties because they're like, this is somebody who is having their own ideas.
It's like a novel thinker. And I think that that's another thing within the new right is novel thinkers are. Elevated [01:10:00] in status above people you agree with.
Speaker: Oh, yes, absolutely. Yeah. And you can see this even championed by Peter Thiel with his, you know, sort of famous, quite old question at this point, which I think is what, like, what is your most heretical belief?
Or really trying to get people To focus on their areas of differentiation rather than their areas of mutual agreement.
Speaker 2: Well, yeah. And I think a lot of people who follow us or our podcast super disagree
Speaker: with us, but like that they disagree with us,
Speaker 2: disagree with us, but they like that at least we are trying to have unique ideas.
And of course, if you are trying to have unique ideas, people are going to disagree with a lot of things. But I think that this, Elevates what is maybe one of the highest of values of the new right, which is
not being ideologically captured.
Speaker: Yes, really owning your [01:11:00] ideas and beliefs. It's a big deal thing in the community for sure. Yeah. It encourages me. I don't, I don't know if the election in the United States this November is going to make it go one way or the other. Honestly, I think it. It is its own faction and it will never really be able to run the United States because in the end it's a little bit too too opposed to mainstream ideas to be able to run everything.
Speaker 2: I disagree really strongly on this point. So I'd love to hear your thesis.
Speaker: I think that it could do a lot of good. If the Trump administration is elected into office and it adequately empowers the new right within it, which is still a big, if a lot of promises appear to have been made and a lot of people have expectations that that new right will be made.
People will be installed within the administration, but I'm one of those, I'll believe it, believe it if I see it, people and I do think that four years of that alone would be huge for our government. But I also just [01:12:00] think that the United States, no matter what, so much bureaucracy has accumulated over time.
And also the average American doesn't like weird. The reason the Democratic Party in the U. S. is using the term weird so often. Flamboyantly and flagrantly in its campaign materials is because a huge swath of Americans don't like weird. They don't like considering new ideas. They don't like change. And this new right that's so pluralistic, that's so.
Open to challenging ideas is just it's too uncomfortable. I would say it's above the pay grade of most Americans. I this sounds very disrespectful, but I just, I don't think most, I don't think a huge swath of the country Wants to handle that kind of approach to life or can handle that kind of approach This
Speaker 2: is the reason why they've ended up winning.
And why I think they're gonna win more in the future. So there's three reasons the first is like in [01:13:00] terms of when you're like, will they end up running this country? My first thought is, well, if the United States government ends up being captured by the Wokies and then economically collapses, and it loses its state infrastructure, which faction of America is going to end up running everything?
I'm like, obviously, it's the cultural descendants of the new right, because they have all of the industry, all the fabs, all the semiconductors, all the technology. And there really isn't any other faction with the industrial capacity to. Like if we're talking about like a haven state country or any sort of collapse, they are the ones with the automated gun drones.
With, with organizations that could have opposed them historically, like Boeing and stuff like that being so incompetent, we actually heard recently one of our friends like family members. Even without another job laid out, but he's like worked at Boeing for 20 years. And he's like, I cannot do this anymore.
It's become too woke in the organization. Isn't producing anything anymore. It's not producing any innovation anymore. Which lowers the, the other side's ability to defend [01:14:00] themselves as they ever really went up against a post pox Romana new right. But you've also got to say, well, could they, within a Trump administration actually run things efficiently?
Absolutely. Because they have one run things before and they're really okay with disruption if they can work with, and this is one of the things we're trying to do is help people who are in the legacy, right. Get their legal apparatus that can help protect the new, right. If they're making the radical changes in the mass firings,
Speaker: because it's one thing you can go into Twitter and fire 80 percent of the staff.
You can't. Go into the U. S. Government and reading this autobiography by H. R. McMaster right now, I'm almost done with it. And just hearing how little control Trump actually had, like people freaking out when Trump would give Like his personal cell phone number to other foreign leaders, because every time he wanted to communicate with a foreign leader, there had to be [01:15:00] protocol.
There had to be five people on the line. It had to be recorded in this way. If you wanted to send a communication to him another foreign leader,
Speaker 2: yeah, they had to like anything and he didn't have competent people to protect him from this.
Speaker: He, I think he wrote some note on McMaster writes in his book that he wrote some note on a headline and then handed it to McMaster and said like, Hey, arrange for this to be delivered to Putin.
Because he was trying to make a point about something. I can't remember what it was and it doesn't matter. But McMaster took this. It's written on newspaper and handed it to whatever the department is that's supposed to review it and vet it before it goes out. I mean, one, why is that later there? That is creepy.
I mean, if you need to record it, record it, but FedEx that thing or whatever to Russia and and he, he encouraged This department to take their time, you know, to like slow down. Cause he really wanted to try to convince Trump to not send this to Putin. And just that level of, of sandbagging something.
He's the president. He is, he has the right to communicate with other [01:16:00] foreign leaders. This is a weird, you get the impression in TV shows that a president could just pick up the phone and call China and call whatever
Speaker 2: nation they want. No, he should, if he was a lefty president, he could. If he was aligned with the deep state, he could, this is the deep state blocking him and the deep, it was quite, it's a creepy book to read.
It is competent foot soldiers to fight against. And that's what the new right is that he didn't have before. And that's why, yes, they can. But then there's the final thing is why is the new right? So politically appealing to America? And the reason why the new right is so politically appealing to Americans and why even though the average American may not support the new right, the problem is, is that as the political movements are shifting, the new right can build a winning electorate.
Specifically what I mean by that is if you look at individuals like If you, if you look at like the, the, the wokes, right. We were in the urban monoculture, which, which controls the left, right? [01:17:00] Suppose I'm a member of the old, right? Like I'm one of these theocrats, you know, I'm a conservative Catholic, or I'm a conservative Jew, or I'm a conservative Mormon or Protestant or something like that.
And I may have a desire, like I may prefer. A candidate who will enforce my value system on other people on the urban monoculture, right? But when I look at two potential candidates, the problem is, is that I know that at least the new right candidate will protect my family from the urban monoculture or work to do that.
So I am. Okay with them. The problem is, is that the new right, if they're deciding between a lefty who wants to enforce their culture on us, or a far right, like GOP Inc person that wants to enforce a culture on us, both are equally bad. So we're not going to vote or will might even vote for the lefty.
Over over that. And I think that this is one really smart a trunk to move from like the legacy, right? [01:18:00] Mike Pence to the new, right. JD Vance as an archetype, especially
Speaker: after dods, because why we saw such a blue wave in the United States after, well, in 2022 was suddenly again, it became the imperative.
It's, it's back to that. Yeah. AI X risk problem, when you make it clear to one group that their way of life or their very existence is threatened by your strict policies, they have to do everything they can to destroy you or fight against you or make sure someone else is in power. They have no other choice.
And that is why the Republican party was trounced two years ago. And yes, I think that there's been a lot of, it's so funny to see the left. In the United States, trying to keep attaching a national abortion ban to the Republican party to just try to make that happen again. Despite Trump [01:19:00] vehemently saying, no, this is a state's issue.
But yeah.
Speaker 2: Well, and it being a state's issue is very aligned with the new right. And I think the thing like the new right was pro him getting rid of Roe versus Wade
like that was. Yeah. In our, I, I think that it was a very unfair Supreme court decision. I don't think that it should have been a Supreme court decision.
I think it was unconstitutional. . But I also and I'm also pro and you are pro even within our state making stricter abortion regulations, but we're not pro universalized abortion restrictions, i.
e. You know, at the level of embryos and stuff like that. Only once you have, you know, significant neural tissue growth, once it appears that there might be 12 to 15 weeks sentience. And that's where we're like, okay, that you shouldn't, you shouldn't be doing it. And you can watch our abortion episode or we go into a lot more thoughts on this, which I actually think is fairly aligned with most of what the new right thinks.
So when you say like, oh, I don't think they can get behind the new right. The problem is. [01:20:00] Is it the new right is the only viable, from a political perspective, right leaning candidates left
Speaker: at
Speaker 3: the
Speaker 2: national level?
Maybe.
Speaker: I hope. I hope people see it that way. I would love to see what the new right apparatus, such that it's forming, do, can do in four years. It could do so many good things. It could clean up so much. And, and excess, you know, it needs to defragment our country. I want to see that happen.
Speaker 2: I would love to see that happen too.
I love you to death Simone. I think it's totally doable. If we attack this hard and fast, and I think it's also very important and it's something that I've been working a lot to do that we build bridges was the legacy, right? And we attempt to bring them into the conversation. If they don't want to be a part of the mainstream.
Right. Conversation these days, if they want to talk in their echo chambers, that's [01:21:00] fine. But there eventually, and anybody who follows online discord knows that the online discord is solidly aligned with the new rights value system. They're eventually going to be replaced. And so we are trying to bring them on board kicking and screaming if we must.
And we, we would probably be able to right now. We're we've been in some talks with the Heritage Foundation about putting together a conference. That's for like rising right wing influencers and bringing them into the traditional like halls of power was in conservative politics and having direct lines of communications with policymakers, but also having a lot of organizations, whether it's the Claremont group or American moment or whatever, or the heritage foundation have a way to talk with these individuals and maybe even have these individuals vet things before they throw them out there, like project 2025 and be like, Hey, this is not what the base wants.
We could make a lot of progress.
Speaker: Yeah, because I think the point is, this is really important. The establishment, GOP, knows how to navigate the deep state, knows where points of pressure Why did they fail under
Speaker 2: [01:22:00] Trump? It's because they're traitorous. And they've always been traitorous. And Trump knows that.
And that's why he isn't working with Heritage Foundation right now. And that's why he chose J. D. Vance as his running mate.
Speaker: In what way do you think they're traitorous?
Speaker 2: Fundamentally, they don't believe this. Perfect example. I was at the NatCon and I was talking to some of these people and I don't want to say what group they were from.
And I was like, why are you doing this? This isn't what the base wants. And they said, F the base. The base are like a bunch of stupid rednecks. They are traitorous. They don't care about the American people. They don't care about Trump's agenda and they are not Real friends of Republicans. They have always thought that they know better than you what you should be doing and what you should want, and they look upon the Trump voter base with the same disdain that the far left urban monoculture and other deep state individuals do.
They just want to cross the
Speaker: aisle. Cause it doesn't sound like you want to cross the aisle here.
Speaker 2: I want to cross the aisle to bring the ones who are willing to treat [01:23:00] our people with respect over and say, Oh I see that the base doesn't want this and I'm willing to. And when I talk with the heritage foundation, most of them are actually willing to cross the aisle.
I think that a lot of the high level people are willing to cross the aisle. I think that what it is is they're low level operatives who are so excited to have gotten an internship at whatever org. They're the ones who aren't, and they're the ones who need to be purged. Yeah. We'll be clear.
Speaker: The, the ones who said what you said, they were not with Heritage.
They were not
Speaker 2: with Heritage. They were one, they were with another
Speaker: organization that I thought was really cool before I talked with them. Yeah. They were, I was
Speaker 2: really surprised about this. Yeah. But it, it made me realize that. They are not. They're not all our friends. And as we bring them over, we need to do it selectively and not this same group.
Speaker: Yeah. Also is pretty antithetical to our wider views and that they were like, no, bureaucracy is good. So long as we run it, the deep states. Okay. So long as we run it. Yeah, they literally this
Speaker 2: is another group.
Speaker: Are you, are you serious? This [01:24:00] is insane. They
Speaker 2: said the goal of the Republican should be to control and persist in control of the deep state, not the erasure of the deep
Speaker: state.
What? No.
Speaker 2: Well, I think this shows the fundamental difference between the new right and the legacy GOP. That was what the legacy GOP always wanted was control over the deep state. The new right wants to burn it down.
Speaker: Yeah. And I guess what's funny to me as I walk around our local area as a state rep candidate is just.
The recognition from everyone else that this is like the cheerleaders and the jocks all kind of angling for power around the locker room while everyone else just goes about their lives and, and, you know, like student government things, they run everything and they don't. And they just, I mean, obviously everyone has to live in their world and it sucks.
But at the same time, [01:25:00] there's just all these very disaffected people who are really just fed up with them, with all of anyone who's involved in government, anyone who's just like, well, I wish they would fix things, but I'm, I've been disappointed by them enough to know that they won't. And I'm just, you know, it's the, the turd sandwich and the giant douche once again.
So I love you. Love you too. Making you. Sautéed sausage with the Mexican street corn again tonight, right?
Speaker 2: Yeah, that works great.
Speaker: Cool. Well, you pick up the kids in 20 minutes and I will start. Yeah, this
Speaker 2: went way longer than I expected it to. We're like, Oh, we'll do a short one today.
Speaker: So much for that, but that's okay.
Speaker 2: I keep trying to make them shorter, Simone. I'll try to edit it down in editing.
Speaker: I think the problem is that we really love each other and we really like talking and we don't want to stop. And this is the quiet, happy, relaxing date [01:26:00] night that we have whenever we record. I also like
Speaker 2: that I have audience keeping me honest.
You know, when, when audiences remember, like, you need to be nicer to Simone. I was like, you know, I really do. I need to be nicer to you. when you don't, I have this like innate reaction when somebody doesn't immediately get what I'm trying to say, where I get angry. And I need to get better about that.
Speaker: And
Speaker 2: I'm learning that from our audience, how to be a better husband.
Speaker: Maybe I can just not be such a midwit.
Speaker 2: How about that? You're so brilliant. You've really helped in terms of the title cards of the show. I could never make them as good without your help.
Speaker: I've explained to you that that is because I have the the the pock on my record of If my fine arts minor at GWU,
Speaker 2: which actually turned out to be so useful for lighting and stuff.
Yeah. You see, we're trying to get better with all our equipment here. No, no,
Speaker: no, this is bad. I really need to fix it. And I will knock on my promise. And my day got derailed with calls today. And I'm really sorry about that. And it will. I'll catch up tomorrow. [01:27:00] Tomorrow's another day, right? Tomorrow is a latter day and I'll be here for you.
I love you
Speaker 2: too.
Speaker 37: Tomorrow is another day, And I am here for you.
Speaker 2: So one of the, one of the stories I have to tell our, our fans is we went to Walmart and I was looking you know, just, we go on a morning walks and we were going on a morning walk there. Cause we can, you know, put the baby thing in one of the pushers anyway. So in carts, yes. And I was looking to get some chips, but I always like to get like the cheapest chips I can find.
And so, we were looking at the chip section and, you know, Simone, suddenly looking, she goes, Oh, you know, I saw some barbecue potato chips in the clearance section. And I was like, I don't remember seeing barbecue potato chips in the clearance section. And [01:28:00] so we went back and I realized I had thought that this was like a hair product of some sort.
And you will see it. Those of you who are watching online, this is, Right here, this is Bar B Qin with My Honey Truffle by Nicki Minaj. But they were so cheap, they were 75 cents a bag. So, I decided to get some, and they are You thought maybe it was just her image wasn't selling, and this was like, a normal barbecue chip, but with slightly different branding?
Speaker: Yeah, or that people didn't recognize that it was food, like you.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and you wouldn't recognize this as food! Maybe. But no, it tastes chemical, toxic.
Speaker: It tastes like pink hair dye.
Speaker 2: I also can't Are you sure that's not a placebo? Every aspect of this packaging I can't get over. With my honey. So [01:29:00] disgusting.
Speaker: Well, no, it just sounds like honey barbecue chips with truffle.
Speaker 2: You would say with honey, not my honey.
Speaker: Oh why, why did you go there?
Speaker 2: Oh, but this also reminds me, this was another thing I was sharing with you. And we're talking about like, where is this woke consumer? I love your, you are in a state of like damage right now.
Speaker: No, I don't like where I am right now.
Speaker 2: So I sent you the was it? The, the list of the top, you know, 10 podcasts. I decided to look it up.
Speaker: Okay.
Speaker 2: And I was sort of shocked. Is that they're all explicitly right? Leaning. Or I don't know
Speaker: who Sean Ryan is. I'll
Speaker 2: have to look that one up.
Microphone (Wireless Microphone Rx)-6: So perplexity says that while he, or at least at one point identified at the Democrat, most of his guests are right-leaning.
Speaker 2: I might be wrong about that one, but you've got Sean Ryan who looks right leaning, but I'll find out.
Then you've got Joe Rogan, right? Right. Leaning. Candace, right? Leaning Tucker Carlson, right? Leaning. Talk [01:30:00] to with Haley wedge. This is a hawk to a girl. She's doing well for herself. I'm so glad.
Speaker: You know,
Speaker 2: I assume she's right. Leaning given she has a cowboy hat, but maybe I'm wrong. And then the two under that are two that are like.
But it's like, where is the woke audience? Like they're not watching anything. Not even like a mildly likely. They're watching
Speaker: mainstream media. Someone has to Malcolm. Gosh.
Speaker 2: By the way, the other thing I sent you that I was quite excited about, because earlier today I was like, I think we might be bigger than the 87 hours podcast, which is one of the biggest podcasts space.
So if you go to this podcast listing site, Okay. And I, I, I sent two pictures from it. We're in the top 3 percent of podcasts. They're in the top 5%. Wow. We're in the top. 3%.
Speaker: How is that? Is it? Oh, well, that's impressive. Wow. Well done, Malcolm.
Speaker 2: I, I, I love that the, the, the like branch of like the EA slash singularity movement [01:31:00] that was right leaning ended up.
Uh, And I think it'll be handedly. So within about a year and a half, the larger branch, when it was considered such an insignificant faction, like we weren't even invited to events for a long time,
Speaker: we still aren't invited to events. They still don't like us.
Speaker 2: I have been reaching out to them. One of the things we're going to talk about on this podcast is I've been trying to bridge the divide in my outreach to podcasts recently, but we'll just get started and we can, we can jump right into this.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker 2: Sorry.
Speaker: Double tasking. Okay.
Speaker 2: By the way, the statistics might be wrong. I saw that on Paul Vanderclay, they had him in the top 1%.
Speaker: That actually makes sense. He has quite a dedicated following and his podcasts are quite long. He has local meetups. It makes sense.
Speaker 2: Okay, okay.
Speaker 41: Um, plan is to [01:32:00] find the bug footprints. Um, I don't know. Um, yeah! Um, I don't know. No. Yes!
Speaker 40: Find the bugs and catch the bugs, right Toasty? Yes! That sounds like a good plan. And then no more mosquito bites? Yeah. Quick! And we trap scales inside our bug trap. And, and those, and those bugs all get hurt inside [01:33:00] the bug trap. Yeah! Do you want to go upstairs now and put on pajamas? Yeah. Or would you like to help me make Octavian's snack first?
Um, I just, I just want to go upstairs. Alright, I'll put you upstairs first, then we'll do Octavian's snack. Sound good? I love you, buddy. If you go slice that apple and tiny little part of it. And then you got to slice that apple and put it. Those are two apples. That's for Sam and that's for me. No, thanks.
Speaker 41: I'm good. And look at this big pumpkin. You like this pumpkin? Yeah. I was standing around and around and around. See? Whoa! Ah! That's silly. Whoa! Whoa! [01:34:00] Whoa! Whoa! Professor, are you disturbed by all this? I can't. I gotta get down! Alright, let's go upstairs and get you in your pajamas. Yeah!
Legacy GOP vs. New Right: The Right Wing "Tech Elite" Changing American Politics