In this thought-provoking discussion, Malcolm and Simone delve into the reasons behind the far left's visceral reactions to traditional, wholesome lifestyles. They explore how the ultra-progressive ideology views emotional pain as a form of violence and how this leads to a disdain for happy, heteronormative relationships. The couple also touches on the concerning trend of trans activists targeting vulnerable communities, particularly lesbians and autistic children. Simone shares her unique perspective as a former progressive woman now living a fulfilling, traditional life with Malcolm. Join them as they unpack the complexities of this controversial topic and shed light on the importance of specialization and trust in healthy relationships.
Malcolm Collins: [00:00:00] any form of emotional pain is considered a form of violence and something that should be systematically avoided. So if it
Simone Collins: causes you pain through cognitive dissonance, like maybe I would have wanted to have, we're going
Malcolm Collins: to get there. We're going to get there, but you jumped to the answer, but we got to get to their point by point. I was watching lesbians complaining about their communities being invaded and I just can't imagine What it would feel like . Imagine you're living in a society where
like space Marines exist. Okay. There are these people that are 20 percent larger than you, five times stronger than you.. But now these people who are very sexually aggressive are demanding that you suck their penises.
And now everyone who you thought before was like part of your safe space is now saying that you're a bigot and you're not really straight because you won't suck these men's penises and so now you're kicked out of even these safe [00:01:00] spaces. Honestly, I think that's
Simone Collins: how it feels.
That's how it feels to them, for sure.
Would you like to know more?
Malcolm Collins: Hello, Simone! I'm excited to be here with you today! And I want to talk about an idea that I had recently, and I actually had it a while ago, but it's something that I've really been reflecting on in my thinking, is the vitriol we see certain, far left, urban monoculture activists react to wholesome things with.
Simone Collins: And how do you find wholesome here?
Malcolm Collins: What you're doing right now, being with your kid, they'll see a loving family. Or they'll see. They're like, that looks so heteronormative. That looks so no. You see this, you'll see a trad wife and they'll be like, this isn't a, this is misogynistic
Simone Collins: for
Malcolm Collins: her to be living this life or for her to be in a happy relationship with a [00:02:00] straight white man and here I can put the, I've been attacked
You went out with a white male? I was a freshman. Fresh person
Malcolm Collins: and I have been thinking why this.
Extremist reaction to this. And it occurred to me that from the perspective of ultra far left ideology wholesomeness and a wholesome lifestyle. is literally a lifestyle of violence. It is a form of violence against marginalized communities from their perspective, they would call marginalized communities.
How
Simone Collins: so if it's 100 percent sovereign in one's own
Malcolm Collins: house? Exactly. How because that is an interesting question. And so we need to go into their world structure. So the first aspect of their world structure that we need to understand is it is a cultural system that is completely defined. And I talk about this all the time, so I'll be very quick in summarizing this.
Defined around any form of emotional pain is [00:03:00] considered a form of violence and something that should be systematically avoided. So if it
Simone Collins: causes you pain through cognitive dissonance, like maybe I would have wanted to have, we're going
Malcolm Collins: to get there. We're going to get there, but you jumped to the answer, but we got to get to their point by point.
So you look at something like the Hayes movement, the healthy at every size movement, why would you hide from women mostly that being overweight. Is has negative long term health repercussions because it causes in the moment pain and therefore it's an evil thing to do because in the moment emotional pain and they force the evil thing to do or you tell them, your lifestyle will not lead you to long term happiness.
That is a form of violence against because you have caused this emotional pain to them. This is where things like misgendering and stuff like that, they're like, this is a form of violence and it should be outlawed. Like it's obviously not a form of violence. So then how are they defining violence?
They're defining violence around things that make them feel upset with [00:04:00] what they've allowed their lives to become. To call somebody out for their own failures as a form of violence.
Simone Collins: Wow. I could see that when our kids fight, it's typically because one kid sees the other kid having a really good time with a toy.
And then suddenly their entire life is misery because they do not have that one toy. And we even, for example, have bought copies of some toys. We have bumper cars, for example, and we have. Two identical orange bumper cars. Cause you very intelligently. The kids have noticed they make
Malcolm Collins: slightly different noises.
Simone Collins: Yes. So they're like we're like, there's another bumper car. Just get in the empty identical bumper. Cause they're like, no, and they see it. And yes they experience real pain.
Malcolm Collins: Actually, before we go further with this topic, I would like people to reflect on this in their own life. How much of the things they desire is just because they saw somebody else having fun with it.
And now they [00:05:00] want it. Keep in mind, I think
Simone Collins: everything makes a lot more sense though, once you've had toddlers and siblings,
Malcolm Collins: yeah. How hard coded this is in us, this world of status signaling. And I saw somebody else who had these things and they are either high status or seem to be happy.
Therefore I want these things. That's why I need that
Simone Collins: thing. Yes.
Malcolm Collins: The trad wife marketing works so well to market an idea and a lifestyle, right? But
Simone Collins: we'll hold on though, because for whatever reason, trad wives don't appear to be watching. the progressive YouTubers and the progressive commentators and going, Oh, why don't I have my, I don't know what do they have?
Malcolm Collins: Nobody wants their lives. Like I, I look at the, these ultra progressive lives. I just don't think anybody wants them. They're like, yeah, but I get to do whatever I want and be affirmed for being whoever I want to be. And we're, meanwhile the other side of the aisle is like, But won't that like really mess up your head and cause a lot of mental health issues and make you fundamentally unfulfilled and they're like don't [00:06:00] say that's violence
Simone Collins: because intuitively I would expect like when I model my progressively raised self, I would assume that when people from more conservative cultures see my progressive lifestyle of getting to do whatever I want in the moment that feels good.
That they would be jealous Oh, I'm fasting on Sunday. It's conference Sunday and I can't eat or whatever. And then Oh, look, they're eating pancakes at IHOP, but I'm so jealous and whatever, right? Like you think they'd be jealous. And it's interesting to me that doesn't seem to be taking place that we look at.
Malcolm Collins: I think the progressive model of the conservative mind is just tinged by bigotry. Where bigotry is, prejudgment and dehumanization of another group that they don't understand from the perspective of conservatives that they get to, masturbate all day, whenever they feel like and eat all the foods they feel like whenever they feel like, and, um, we're not looking at that was envy.
We're like, Oh, like that's sad. Which is [00:07:00] also very interesting from, Progressive mindset when they're looking at these videos and they're looking at these ideas and you have created this cognitive dissonance in them like the wholesomeness is literally a form of violence against them.
Simone Collins: It is
Malcolm Collins: literally hurtful to them because it shows. That two groups promised two different things. And both said, this thing will give you happiness. There's two different cultural assumptions around what gives a person fulfillment and happiness. And they need to believe that the other group was lying because they know that there's no happiness at the end of what they have.
And I will say, Okay. There is definitely a form of the trad wife, like the ultra strict trad wife. We've done a different video on this. That is a complete LARP and it is it does lead to unhappiness. Ultimately, you work at a, a relationship like Stephen Crowder's or something like that, where he's bought into this ultra traditionalist mindset that is not really, [00:08:00] it has like genuine misogyny as part of it.
Or, Lauren Southern who got the divorce after, trying trad wife lifestyle. And just seeing that, you need a real traditional relationship. So I'd go watch her video on that and I'll post the title card on the screen here.
So it's easier to find. But this is interesting because it provides an explanation for something that I think can be confusing to conservatives, which is. Progressives for so long said they just wanted the government out of their house, not regulating them. Why now that they are in power, are they trying to disintermediate anyone from seeing these sort of conservative messages?
And are they so antagonistic to these have to be healthy, heterosexual relationships and marriages? And even wholesome gay marriages. So we have gay friends who are like conservative leaning and have kids and have structured this very wholesome lifestyle for themselves. And they confide in us that they actually deal with a lot of ostracization [00:09:00] from the gay community and are seen as being traitors to the community.
And you actually see this within a black community as well. For example, like you can ask, like, why are so often these wholesome, two parent black families seen as race traitors, seen as like othered by the black community? Like you're not really black, they'll say these things that they vote conservative and move into these conservative mindsets.
And part of it is that they are a form of violence against the iterations of the black community you. that went with other cultural hypotheses like the dissolution of the family unit, which I should say is being pushed very hard. It's like a key aspect of Marxist philosophy is the dissolution of the family unit.
And so they've worked really hard in the communities where they have more sway, like the black community, to actively dissolve family units.
Simone Collins: Wow.
Malcolm Collins: And so like the huge percentage of black kids that are being born, and
I'll put the statistic here into single families, that [00:10:00] is an active campaign by.
Certain extremists, like priest factions within the urban monoculture.
And I also think that this comes to another thing where they're like you guys are often defying at far, progressives and stuff like that and getting worried about it. Like, why are you doing?
That right and I should point out here that we don't like you'll never hear us on our channel like Attacking like gay men, for example, or even really gay women on our channel but you'll often hear us complaining about the trans community. So what's the difference between these various groups, right?
And it's that the trans community is really actively targeting individuals who I do not believe are actually trans. And most of them are individuals who are have mental health issues. Really disproportionately, they target autistic children, which our children have fallen in the category of and attempt to, I actually had a joke recently that I was going to put on Twitter or something where I was like, we have [00:11:00] autistic children.
Or as they're called within the trans community eggs. Do you know what an egg is in the trans community? That's a target that they think might be potentially trans that needs to have it shell cracked. And if you look at the recent research that's been coming out, we now know that of 11 year olds nine out of 10 of them who identify with the opposite gender are going to detransition within five years.
are going to no longer have that predilection within five years. Yeah.
Simone Collins: They're doing irreparable damage if they're getting some kind of intervention.
Malcolm Collins: Yeah. Yeah. And if you look at the long term medical issues that people who transition have and stuff like that. So that's why we focus so much on that community because it's actively doing harm to other cultural groups and survives through this active form of harm.
Which actually brings me to another thing I could complain about right now on this episode because it was really getting to me today based on some episodes I was watching of de transitioned individuals and lesbians complaining [00:12:00] about their communities being invaded and I just can't imagine What it would feel like I understand where some TERFs are coming from what it would feel like to be a lesbian woman and have this movement that was moving to like women only spaces where you could go and dating apps and just as the rest of the gay rights movement is really getting together now, all of a sudden, if you're a lesbian woman on a dating app, everyone who's reaching out to you is a non passing trans woman.
Every single person that's reaching out and you are being called a bigot for not going on dates with them.
We're keep in mind, a lot of these women have fear around getting graped or something like that.
Simone Collins: Or they're just in terms of sexual orientation, uniquely turned off by male characteristics.
That's totally a thing that exists.
So a couple of things I wanted to go a bit deeper on here. One of the things we talk about in the pragmatist guide to [00:13:00] sexuality. Is that human arousal when it comes to gender. He is not divided into male and female. It's divided into specific environmental stimuli. I E seeing a penis, seeing breast, seeing the male form, seeing the female form and it exists on a spectrum of arousal to discuss.
So in some individuals seeing one of these gendered things can generate a very large amount of disgust in them. The exact opposite of arousal. Actually, we argue that it's literally the opposite of arousal. Um, when you are aroused, your pupils dilate, you look at something longer, you typically breathe in.
When you are disgusted, you typically look away from something as much as possible. You want to get away from it. And instead of go closer to it, your pupils contract. , and you hold your nose. We suspect they're operating off the same system, but anyway, , you know, Th th they are experiencing an extreme amount of disgust when they're seeing these individuals.
And we'd also note. [00:14:00] The, , trans. Individuals. You know, People born men who are going into these lesbian spaces, they are not the normal types of trans individuals. You see, they are,
Well, the creepy ones, the ones who don't have any sort of. Normal social consideration and no sort of boundaries. And this is the thing where a lot of people are like, come on. Are you really telling me that? If you gave creepy, sexually aggressive men. , way to predate on women, just by lying about their gender, that they would do that. That that creepy, sexually aggressive Ben would lie to try to sleep with lesbian women. And then of course I, you reflect on this for a second and you, of course. Of course that's exactly what creepy, sexually aggressive men would do, especially if you gave them a social cheat where no one's allowed to criticize their behavior. All the men who claim to be lesbian are AGP. 100%. Because they're heterosexual, right? If they were gay [00:15:00] dudes who were trans, they wouldn't even be anywhere near lesbian spaces. I have never met a transbian that was not an autodynophile. And that is I think even the worst part of this. Is we are getting the sickest and creepiest dudes.
This isn't the what most people think a trans woman is, I think the most average person who's just not involved in this thinks a trans woman is a super effeminate gay man who transitioned fully, and they're like, Oh, she's okay, she can use the bathroom, which is, and it's that is not the majority of what's happening here. Hi, my name is Luz. I'm a trans and polyamorous therapist in Texas, and this is my therapy theme of the week. This week's theme honors Lesbian Visibility Week.
As I myself am a trans lesbian, this is what I want to say about lesbians. One of the reasons why I love being a lesbian and I love lesbians is because we get to show the world that it is possible to [00:16:00] love outside the dimensions of patriarchy. We, with sapphic love, create an entirely different dimension, an entirely different way of loving people.
and living, and it's so fuckin beautiful. It's as important as the sunshine. I want to say that a lot of lesbians, particularly cis lesbians, initiate flirting with other women is through eye contact you can just tell in the eyes oh, they're into you.
As an autistic trans woman, that doesn't work. Because for one, I need people to be very direct with me, because I don't like to make assumptions about their intentions. By default, most trans women have their walls up and are ready to brawl because if a woman's staring at us, there's just this innate fear that they're gonna, that they've clocked us and they're gonna say some TERF bullshit and we gotta start thre Who the f yeah, you're gonna be clocked.
Look at you! Have you seen yourself? Is there a mirror in your house, sir?
Malcolm Collins: [00:17:00] Yeah. And so if I was going to convey to a straight guy, how this would feel okay. Imagine you're living in a society where
like space Marines exist. Okay. There are these people that are 20 percent larger than you, five times stronger than you. And You had decided that you only liked women.
You as a guy only like women, right? You like having sex with women and you really don't like penises or anything like that, but now all of a sudden, a category of the space Marines who are all male, okay, they all have penises. Everything like that has started saying that they're women on dating apps.
They're the only group reaching out to you. They go into what used to be space like safe spaces, because you used to have these private spaces where like only men could go before. But now these people who are very sexually aggressive are coming into these spaces and they're demanding that you suck their penises.
They are demanding, and now everyone who you thought before was like part of your [00:18:00] safe space is now saying that you're a bigot and you're not really straight because you won't suck these men's penises and so now you're kicked out of even these safe spaces. Honestly, I think that's
Simone Collins: how it feels.
That's how it feels to them, for sure.
Malcolm Collins: Yeah, that's how it feels to them. It's either you suck space marine cock or you are no longer a straight male. Like you'd be like, just one of the fear that you would live with every day when you go to one of these spaces. And then all of a sudden this 12 foot tall person marches in with 10 times your muscle mass.
And this formerly was a community where you felt safe talking about what it feels like to be a non space marine in a space marine society. Um, I feel so bad for them it's not that I don't also feel for actual trans individuals, which I think is a real thing, I think some individuals are actually trans individuals, but they can't understand why women who were born women would want spaces where these other category of person isn't coming into or [00:19:00] because men are like people who are born men are much more like sexually aggressive on these apps and stuff like that.
And now there's
no like female only dating apps or women who were born women, like CIS women only CIS lesbian women only dating apps that just doesn't exist, like even her and stuff like that is now regularly promoting like.
You can get categorized and kicked off the app for being a quote unquote turf for saying trans women and then you can get kicked off Tinder for this. You can get kicked off of,
First I got kicked off of Tinder for putting that I was I think I put female only. Cause I know her used to be pretty specific for women, and then they released the whole, uh, thing like their whole policy basically saying, Oh we don't discriminate against anybody and everybody's welcome.
And then at that point, you're like then it's not. Lesbian, like it's not for women. Her has even had, I don't remember the exact wording, but they've had like kind of pop up announcements on the [00:20:00] app about TERFism and there's this specific category to report people for being TERFs on what supposed, what started as a lesbian dating app
Malcolm Collins: and so all of the people reaching out to you. And so you just become like an incel, like if people say incel women don't exist, like this is a one category where it'd be like, there probably are actual in cell lesbians just because you can't go into any public space without being hit on by like hundreds of.
What to you? To me, I've got nothing against trans people doing what they're doing, but would I sleep with one of them? Especially one of them who doesn't pass? As a straight man most straight men are like, viscerally, yeah, I get it, lesbians. I get why you're having this visceral reaction to this.
Then to have this entire safety net. So there's that, but then there's also this hatred of wholesomeness that we regularly see because of the explosion of mental health issues in these communities that sought like a constant hose of dopamine just do whatever I want, [00:21:00] whenever I want.
Simone Collins: And there's a lot of cope that comes out of that too. One of the most common responses appears to be, Oh this is all a lie. It is all an illusion. I think this is one of the big reasons why eight passengers crashed and burned so publicly is that at first you had this large trad family. That took a more conservative approach to parenting.
They were harder on punishment, et cetera. And then finally they just went off the rails, crashed and burned. And it allowed a huge portion of the community, the progressive community to say, see exactly every family, every conservative family that appears wholesome. In the end, it turns out that the mother has joined some kind of psychologist cult and is leaving the father and the kids are being You know, horribly treated and all of these things.
And that's a huge message that I see as well. So it's not just framing it as an attack. I think a lot of it also is just turning it into cope because even acknowledging that it's an attack acknowledges that. [00:22:00] You wish that you had that for yourself.
Malcolm Collins: So as a former progressive woman who grew up in San Francisco did you think relationships like ours existed or did you
Simone Collins: know, of course not,
Malcolm Collins: you've seen pretty deeply into both the lifestyles, be the person who's just being like, honestly, this is how it is.
Like what are your thoughts? Thoughts like, is it really as good as they say it better than they say it is? Is it, yeah. What are your real thoughts?
Simone Collins: The mindset that I was raised with, if I were to see a trad wife and I'd never encountered a trad wife, so I would have thought that it was fictional first would be that this is someone who's extremely sheltered and doesn't know any better.
So they've just been essentially robbed of a series of opportunities in their lives and they are a trad wife because that is all that they've been exposed to. Which to be fair is how many people are raised. Ayla was raised in an environment where she was just told that, like, all of her education was so she could be a good homeschooling, stay at home mother, and then she leaves that world and realizes that she was robbed of a lot of opportunities.
And that's a very legitimate [00:23:00] complaint. So I think the. The perception of the world that I was raised with is not totally wrong. And I think that's one of the reasons why this kind of mindset, this view that a lot of people in this position are being lied to are just missing a lot of opportunities that they otherwise would have pursued is because a lot of the time it's true.
I think that the big thing that's missing is that progressives don't grow up understanding fully the supportive role that traditional cultures play. And I definitely grew up. Really envying and really missing this concept of having traditions and having holidays and having a cohesive culture and having a, we do this, we stand for that.
This is what we're all about. And even the books that my parents read to me as I was a kid, it seemed like this fantasy that was so appealing, that was so cozy, but that had gone extinct. So I could see. People [00:24:00] who are progressive now looking at a trad family and saying, you are just cosplaying as this thing that isn't real anymore.
And it can't be real. And this is really offensive because I want it to like my parents and many people went through this. They were read. Little house on the prairie by their parents. So they read those books as a kid and they loved this life. That's actually quite austere. That's quite difficult.
There's disease, there's danger, there's deprivation, but it's one of the coziest book series you could possibly read. And there's this perception that just. It's something that could happen in the past and couldn't happen now.
Malcolm Collins: And I think that, people hear that I have final say on all things in our relationship.
And I think that there's the assumption that then I must be like as a person living in this relationship where it's like an actually healthy sort of trad life relationship. Do you feel like the misogyny, I think you would assume as an outsider, like of me having final say in everything do you feel like you're not consulted in decisions or that I,
Simone Collins: Not at all.
I think what people miss when it comes down to [00:25:00] hierarchies in a relationship is that it doesn't feel like a hierarchy. It feels it feels like specialization of labor. It feels like an economic decision and choice. Someone that I was corresponding with who followed this podcast was telling me this is someone I admire deeply.
She's amazing. A homeschooling mother of seven kids. That's what we always call it. We're not going to name, we don't name anyone. Cause we're not going to reveal anyone, but she was talking about how people really misunderstand trad relationships and that this whole concept of people exerting their dominance is like pulling rank.
And whenever you're pulling rank. You are essentially like paying capital. You are you're demonstrating the fact that you didn't have that rank in the first place. You're trying to reassert something that you haven't earned. And that in a true relationship where you have a hierarchy, because it's naturally sorting, you have specialization of labor and you never have this feeling of maintaining frame or pulling rank or shit testing, because it is just so clear [00:26:00] that.
You are really good at this. I'm really good at this. We're going to do our jobs and we trust each other to do a good job because we see that the outcomes are ideal when we trust each other, that you earn that hierarchy, you earn that position. So I think that's also something that's not really seen in.
In progressive circles, when they look at traditional circles, because one relationships have been so broken down that it's just understood that people are in these atomized relationships where they don't really have, no one has a specialization. No one has a role. No one has. Everyone has to be able to do absolutely everything by themselves.
Their finances are by themselves. Their careers by themselves. Their friendships are by themselves. So there's no specialization. And then there's also this really huge misrepresentation among so called conservatives who constantly talk about maintaining frame and constantly talk about shit tests and constantly talk about their dominance and constantly are pulling rank.
And they totally mess, like they [00:27:00] act as though that they are, they represent trad life when they are 100 percent not at all representative of trad life.
Malcolm Collins: I completely agree with you. And another interesting thing that I wanted to highlight here because our eight passengers video never is going live because we did film one on it.
I said on that video a long time ago right after the eight passenger situation happened is. I looked at some of the stuff. So people who don't know, she basically fell into a cult with this other lady who started living with them. And I looked at pictures of her and I was like, this lady's a lesbian.
Simone Collins: Yeah.
Malcolm Collins: And then I'll put pictures on the screen.
If you grew up around a lot of gay people, you can like. Tell like she sets off the gate or to such an extreme
Simone Collins: that even people with no gate are like, but that's
Malcolm Collins: a lesbian, right? Yeah. Her actions make sense now. So what she would do is try to break up men and tell them that they were addicted to porn of women.
And I think it's because she was. And so she just learned she could say this to any guy to break up. Like her whole thing was attempting to break up straight. I don't
Simone Collins: even, I don't think necessarily she has [00:28:00] to have been addicted to porn to do that. I think she discovered that it was very easy to do that too.
Assert her own dominance within a relationship and disintermediate the husband and wife. It was actually worth
Malcolm Collins: doing a whole video on how she brainwashed people because it was a really interesting tactic. Comment below if you think so. Yeah. And it sounds like our kids are back from the park.
Oh my gosh. I love my wife. I love my kids and I love this life you have created for me. We need to
Simone Collins: do some wholesome family time. I'm looking forward to it. Am I making, we're making you beef bulgogi tonight.
Malcolm Collins: Bulgogi and then corn ribs.
Simone Collins: Yes. Oh my
Malcolm Collins: gosh. Ribs are, but I saw them at Trader Joe's and I was like, let's try it.
Simone Collins: Let's do it.
Malcolm Collins: Let's do it.
Simone Collins: Yeah. All
Malcolm Collins: right. You are a very special and amazing woman. And thank you for committing violence against the urban monoculture every day by enjoying your life and broadcasting. for,
Simone Collins: Asserting your dominance. Through your natural superiority. I love you so much. Maybe [00:29:00]
Malcolm Collins: this is tied to women online all the time.
Always posting their losses. Like everyone's always talking about women posting their losses. That might make another video. There's this trend online of like women posting like really horrible days or when they really screwed up or when they really like just Oh, this horrible thing happened to me.
Men don't do this very frequently. Yeah. I'll pull up a compilation on it. It's an interesting phenomenon.
Simone Collins: I have not fallen down this hole yet. Okay, cool. Looking forward to it.
Malcolm Collins: I've got the kids.
Simone Collins: Thank you.
The War on Lesbians & Wholesome Families