The Problem With Being a Pronatalist

Malcolm Collins: [00:00:00] there's another thing about the pronatalist movement

and that is what I'd call our Tucker and Dale force versus evil problem. It is about the way that the people from the urban monoculture dehumanize other people outside of the urban monoculture to such an extent that they can only see them as like freaks and murderers, no matter how nice they're trying to be to them And end up like murdering themselves in the process

Oh, good, look, your friends are here! Hey!

You're supposed to want to have children. And this is your ultimate goal in life. It is a very archaic idea and old idea and representation of a woman.

 So you you're getting people to sign a petition.

pledge, basically saying that they will not have Children until the Canadian government takes serious action on climate change.

Is that your blood? What, no. No, it's college kid blood. And how many people have signed on so far. 1, [00:01:00] 381 as of right now. I know what this is. This is a suicide pact. Oh my god, that makes so much sense. , we have got to hide all of the sharp objects!

if only I was born with a vagina. To solve that problem. Amen, sister.

 Holy mother of God! Some kid, he just hucked himself right into the wood chipper! What? Head first, right into the wood chipper! It looked like it might have been one of the college kids..

Would you like to know more?

Malcolm Collins: Hello, Simone. I am so excited to be talking with you again today back at our old location where we originally started filming, but now we have a hard connection.

So you guys get solid video quality from here. But one thing I wanted to think about today

Simone Collins: is

Malcolm Collins: the nature of running the pronatalist or being leading figures in the pronatalist movement. And what that means. And why we look so

Simone Collins: much younger and less stressed than Greta. Yeah.

Malcolm Collins: Because there was an article that came out in Politico about the pronatalist conference [00:02:00] and they noted, they're like despite it being a fairly glum message, everyone seemed really upbeat and everyone was really optimistic.

Simone Collins: Yeah, honestly, there was so much laughing. There was so much joking. There was so much lightheartedness, which is funny because demographic collapse is dire and scary. Yeah. It's, it is the, it is like climate change, a very scary shift that if not properly planned for is going to hurt the most vulnerable.

Oh

Malcolm Collins: yeah, millions of people are going to die slow and painful deaths because of this. . conservatively. Actually, , I'd say probably at least a billion people are going to die a slow and painful death over demographic collapse.

And people are like, what do you mean? Come on. That's an exaggeration. And I'm like, okay. Or you could look at every state social security system, every state's Medicare system. How are they going to pay for that? How are they going to pay to keep their elderly alive? Okay, they're not they're gonna die.

They're gonna starve. They're gonna freeze and they're not gonna get medical [00:03:00] treatments That's what's gonna happen as a result of all this but you might say then why is it such an upbeat movement? Why is it so low stress to operate? One and this is something I really noticed at the event itself is there is no status hierarchy signaling within the movement.

While in our discord server, people do list how many kids they have. That really isn't a sign of status within the movement. Yeah. And

Simone Collins: one reason, and I just want to emphasize this because this is so freaking important. It does not matter how many kids you have. What matters is how many grandchildren and great grandchildren you have.

If you don't give your kids a great upbringing and they're not super stoked about passing on your culture and having their own kids, you failed. So I don't care if you have one kid or you have 10 kids, it matters what happens with those kids.

Malcolm Collins: Yeah so one, I think it's the lack of status hierarchy.

When I'm in environmentalist stuff, there's a status hierarchy and signaling how much you care about the environment and what you're doing for the environment, which is a very important part of these rallies and attend in events and stuff like that. And it's actually like [00:04:00] the reason people go to them.

That is an absolutely massive part of why it's so low stress.

As to why there's no status hierarchy, I can only speculate, but it may be because at many of these other events, people who participate in them are participating in them in part because they have been rejected from other social communities. and so the validation that they get within this community is the only source of validation or place where they can really rank high from a social hierarchy perspective.

So they really focus on masturbating that instinct. But within the pronatalist movement, at least as it stands right now, No one's really involved in it who isn't more famous or more successful was in a another community. And that's probably what's, what's causing it is you don't get the, nerdy neck beard types going.

Malcolm Collins: The second thing that we could talk about is if you look at the antinatalist movement you can see that they have unusually high rates of [00:05:00] sociopathy and narcissism and stuff like that. And I suspect that if you looked at the pronatalist movement, you would see the exact opposite of unusually high rates of incredibly low anxiety.

Simone Collins: Yeah. And low

Malcolm Collins: levels of depression. You're

Simone Collins: not Going to be as motivated to have kids. If you are depressed, if you have, if you struggle with life. So yeah, people who are having kids typically are doing pretty well mentally, financially, physically. And

Malcolm Collins: I think a wave of nihilism has overtaken our society.

And this wave of nihilism that is particularly popular among the youth to enter a community and the perinatalist community almost necessarily has almost no nihilism in their thinking. Yeah. Has almost no nihilism, almost none of this Oh, the future isn't going to be great so long as we could fix it, or the future isn't going to be great for us.

I should note here that this wasn't just something that we noticed. Diana Fleischman said quote in a tweet, also it's likely that the natalism conference had the lowest rate of personality and psychiatric disorders of any conference I have attended. And [00:06:00] then, Bodak said on Twitter, one interesting thing about natalcon was that every single attendee was extremely healthy and attractive and well dressed, a welcome relief from normal life.

Malcolm Collins: but there's another thing about the pronatalist movement that's really interesting and it puts it in quite a different position than other activist movements.

And that is what I'd call our Tucker and Dale force versus evil problem. Where there is this scene in the movie where they're just trying to help these college kids and the college kids think that they're like these horrible villains because they have stereotypes about Republicans basically, or like rural people.

Yeah, like rednecks. They're basically, the movie is great if you are anti urban monoculture. It is basically about the way that the people from the urban monoculture dehumanize other people outside of the urban monoculture to such an extent that they can only see them as like freaks and murderers, no matter how nice they're trying to be to them.

 Why don't you go over there and talk to her? . You gotta have some faith in yourself, man. Girls can smell fear. Now, come [00:07:00] on. Whatever you say, just smile and laugh. It shows confidence. You guys, uh, going camping?

Now look, we don't want any trouble, alright?

Malcolm Collins: And so they all run out and try to kill these, as they say, rednecks, right? These like basic, very well meaning conservative people. And end up like murdering themselves in the process while the other people are like trying to save them. There's this thing where he comes back and he goes, I don't know what's going on.

I think these people have like a suicide pact or something. And it reminds me of every day I come home to my wife,

You're supposed to want to have children. And this is your ultimate goal in life. It is a very archaic idea and old [00:08:00] idea and representation of a woman.

Oh, good, look, your friends are here! Hey! Get

Malcolm Collins: and I'm out there, I'm trying to convince people, often from these cultural groups that don't want to have kids.

And they will say these horribly mean things to me, and, uh, it's there's no point in arguing back. There's no point in fighting back really post a point where, that your arguments aren't going to land because to you, they're killing themselves already.

Is that your blood? What, no. No, it's college kid blood. One of those suckers came running out of nowhere and speared himself straight through the gut and died right on top of me, Todd. Holy crap. Oh, no! Calm down, calm down, don't cry.

Malcolm Collins: They are in this act of sterilization, memetic sterilization or literal castration.

I've had two consultations with two different doctors who offered contrasting opinions,

I haven't experienced any [00:09:00] sexual sensation, so when the doctors are saying an orgasm is like a sneeze, I don't even know what she's talking about

what girl wants their penis to grow? Not this girl, and not any girl.

if only I was born with a vagina. To solve that problem. Amen, sister.

Are you okay?

Malcolm Collins: They have they have functionally put upon themselves the worst of the harms that I am trying to prevent.

 Holy mother of God! Some kid, he just hucked himself right into the wood chipper! What? Head first, right into the wood chipper! It looked like it might have been one of the college kids..

Simone Collins: Yeah. We live mentally in the future, in our future generations. That's where our minds are and they literally are not there. [00:10:00] So it's, there's, we sometimes, I feel like we should respond to emails from like a diligent standpoint, but yeah, we've received some emails recently from antinatalists and whatnot, where I'm like, you know, you're not even a, you're not, you

Malcolm Collins: are, I almost want to just send them back the video from the life of Brian was the crack suicide squad.

That's coming to save them.

The people's front! We are to defend people's front! Crack Suicide Squad! Attack!

That showed them, huh? You silly sods.

Simone Collins: There's no point. There's no point in engaging because they're not part of the discussion that we're having. They're not in the future. So why do we care? Good for them, do their thing, but.

Malcolm Collins: And it was interesting. So it's also just constantly when you're in online spaces, you [00:11:00] generally end up feeling I don't think you get the same negativity that other people get.

So you you're getting people to sign a petition.

pledge, basically saying that they will not have Children until the Canadian government takes serious action on climate change. And how many people have signed on so far. 1, 381 as of right now. Nobody's really, nobody's against it. In the very beginning I sent it out to a whole bunch, maybe like a hundred of my friends. And I would say like 97, 98 of them signed it. Wow. In my generation, climate, you know, fear of climate change isn't an opinion. We don't, it's not like America where people start like people, people, people, people.

Our, you know, they choose to believe in the climate crisis. We've grown up learning about the science, so we are all, you know, all scared of what the future will hold. I know what this is. This is a suicide pact. These kids are coming out here and they're killing themselves oh my god, that makes so much sense. , we have got to hide all of the sharp objects!

Malcolm Collins: Because when [00:12:00] I read negativity in online spaces generally, my response is mentally my, my thought is. Okay. Is this an idea that's going to spread right? Because that's my fear. Like it spreads and it causes more damage.

And then is this an idea that's going to spread to people who, if they didn't adopt it would have made the future a better place.

And the answer is almost always, no, I'll see these people. Put out these horrible, vile opinions online. I'll see things like these protests at Columbia going on right now. And I'm like they're not going to have kids, so I don't really need to engage with it.

Like they've already done the worst to themselves. And they don't see it that way. They don't because they don't, their conception of the way a human life works is very different from our conception. , we see a human life as being an intergenerational thing. It's this intergenerational cycle of improvement that we all have a duty to,

 Ours is a journey that spans [00:13:00] generations, where one story ends, another begins. The world our ancestors faced was brutal, yet from it, they drew life

Malcolm Collins: as when Wood Reed says,

All men, indeed, cannot be poets, inventors, or philanthropists. But all men can join in that gigantic and godlike work, the progress of creation. Whoever improves his own nature improves the universe of which he is a part. He who strives to subdue his evil passions, vile remnants of the old four footed life, and who cultivates the social affections.

He who endeavors to better his condition and make his children wiser and happier than himself, whatever may be his motives, he will have not lived in vain.

Malcolm Collins: but yeah. I, and I completely agree with that quote. I think that is how I judge a life well lived, and I don't, as we've talked about before, ship of Theseus and all that, [00:14:00] Simone and I don't believe we are meaningfully the same people who existed 10 years ago, 20 years ago and when I look at who I am today, and I contrast that person with who I was when I was my child's age, I I don't think I am any more the same person as that person than I am my child.

And so it's not that we think our children in the way that like many anti natalists we frame it as we think our children are continuations of us today. We just don't believe that humans are meaningfully that contiguous to begin with. Yeah. And so all we can do. is live as sacrifices within every moment to try to improve this intergenerational unit, both myself in the future but also my kids, my grandkids, everything like that.

Simone Collins: I think there's another big reason why this is a low stress movement, especially when you compare it to other movements like environmentalism is that inherently. This is a non coercive movement. And by that, to win, you don't need to get everyone on [00:15:00] board with your cause. You don't need to get even a majority, even a large minority of people to do something.

And that in itself is very low stress because it means that you're only getting those who are really enthusiastic to tap into good resources that may already exist. You're not forcing people who are not on board to get on board. And I think something really stressful about being, for example, someone who's trying to get people to take action around climate change, or let's say you're a vegan and you understand just how horrendous animal cruelty is, when people are eating meat and you're trying to convince people to not eat meat, it's incredibly stressful to try to convince people to do anything.

And the great thing about prenatalism is we're not forcing or trying to convince anyone who's not into having kids. into having kids. We're just like, Hey, if you're into kids, here's, here's a community where you get rewarded for that. And here's a community where you get to lead in and imagine if you were a vegan and you got to achieve an end of animal cruelty.

By just getting to [00:16:00] interact with other really enthusiastic vegans and trade vegan recipes and make really cool vegan foods and invent new vegan foods together, instead of trying to get all these non vegans to stop doing horrendous acts.

I swear this scene reminds me of every time we have to talk to reporters, and they're like, Oh, so you're Nazis? And I'm like, no, no, no, we're not Nazis. You see, you have to understand, um, the Nazis killed people, lots of people. Like that's why they're a problem. They go, Oh, okay. , you're violent far right extremists. Well, okay, we're not violent, and I don't know if the term extremist applies. If it's just, you know, let's keep our civilization afloat.

And what's worse is when these reporters are indoctrinated in the urban monoculture, not only do we sound just completely insane to them, but they're always like taking Simone aside and being like, okay, blink once if this is like a hostage situation. , expecting that, of course, no woman would sign up to associate with these kinds of ideas.

So, conversations with reporters always go a little like this.

 [00:17:00] Hey. Hello, there we were. Yep. Uh, minding our own business. When all of a sudden, out of nowhere, these kids started killing themselves all over my property.

Now, I don't know how much experience you've had with this, but we were scared shitless.

You must think that I'm some kind of moron to believe a story like that. . Not a moron. Just open minded. You say you were just working when this kid ran up and stuffed his head into that wood chipper? That's a fact.

 And, and I think maybe they might be trying to kill the girl that we have inside. She can maybe explain the whole thing. , if I hadn't knocked her unconscious with a shovel on accident. On accident. You've got another one inside

yeah, she's in my bedroom.

Malcolm Collins: This is I think it really, [00:18:00] a part, a place where people might misunderstand us is we are not diversity absolutists.

So by that, what I mean is a lot of people know that a core Purpose of the movement is to preserve some level of human diversity. Like we think that a diverse species ethnically and culturally had the better chance of surviving and will be more productive and will be less likely to turn fascist and authoritarian.

And people hear that and they're like, Oh, so you want to save absolutely every cultural group, absolutely every ethnic group. And no, we are a coalition of the willing. And when somebody stubbornly says no, like I would make. Noah ever.

I go to an animal and I'd be like, Hey you guys should get on the arc.

We're trying to save you. And then the unicorns and fairies, they'd be like, Hey, honestly, what you're saying sounds a little homophobic about the flood and everything like that. And I'd be like, it has nothing to do with homophobia. I'm just trying to get you guys on the arc because you're going to die if you don't get on.

And then there will be no more fairies and there will be no more unicorns. And they're like, I don't know. I hate you. And I'd be like, fuck off. [00:19:00] I don't care. Go do your thing. I would be the shortest temper Noah. I know that's why God did not give me that role. I just be like, okay, whatever.

So often we will have these individuals come to us. And I'll see these movements like right now the 4B movement in Korea, it's beginning to spread in the United States. Particularly among some parts of American black culture. And I like American black culture. I would like it to survive.

I will do what I can to make them aware of the problem, but I'm not going to force them. And if they're going to jump into the wood chipper, in an effort, so the four B's is the culture that came from Korea, no sex, no men, no marriage, no kids. And it is it seems to be catching on the black community because black women, A feel that was in the current American culture they are not treated with respect by black men and they just don't have any good options.

And so that it's better just to not engage with them. And it's this is a cultural fight. That's not mine to have. It's women. Trying to spite men that are both outside of my cultural [00:20:00] group and all I can do is say, you know what, this whole thing you guys have going on is pretty toxic and I hope that we can save some iteration of black American culture and I hope it doesn't include you.

Or the people who were susceptible to this. And so it's so interesting that it's a movement that while, and this is another thing we talk about the horrifying things that are going to happen. Millions upon billions of slow and painful deaths and people will be like, why doesn't that stress you out?

And this is, there's a reason why it doesn't stress us out. Because we as a movement, Do not really motivate with fear or with pathos. This is one of the things that a lot of people are like, Why don't you go more into the pathos? More into the pain and sadness. And I'm like, I don't know.

It's just not my thing. The movement's so autistic. We're just coming out here with stats. This is what's gonna happen. And they're like why not lean into the pathos? And it's because I don't believe the pathos. And I'll explain what I mean by that. I believe that people are gonna suffer and die.

I also believe that no matter what we do, we are not going to make a meaningful impact on that. There really is unlike the environmentalist movement, which [00:21:00] uses the environmental panic

Simone Collins: to

Malcolm Collins: motivate action.

Simone Collins: Lots of fear mongering.

Malcolm Collins: Lots of fear mongering. We don't do that. And because of that it means that people would be like the world is going to be in a bad situation and it's going to be that no matter what we do.

So why stress? Why stress about the things that are going to happen no matter what?

Simone Collins: And more importantly it's the optimists movement in that there are some people who are just a little bit more driven by. The potential by the opportunity by something really cool that could happen than people who are driven by, it's carrot versus stick people and we're carrot people.

It's okay. There are a lot of stick people. They can do that. That's fine. Yeah,

Malcolm Collins: I don't know. The future that we're trying to create, I think, is also so optimistic. When contrasted with the visions that different cultural groups tied to like world catastrophes are freaking out about, like the environmentalist movement really want some form of like authoritarian government that can [00:22:00] control people's actions or.

brainwash everyone into having the exact same opinions about the environment which would require like a state, a mandatory state school system, just really horrifying stuff across the board. The anti AI people, a lot of people don't know this, but I've talked to them I'm like, realistically, how do you implement this?

How do you prevent anyone anywhere in the world from working on these AI technologies? They're like realistically, what they would need is a lattice of internet of things around the world that is monitoring everyone all the time. That is the only real way that the anti AI movement could become a sustainable so they're not really anti AI.

What they're for is one authoritarian world government AI that they run. That is the end game for most of these organizations. Yeah, no thanks. Yeah, no thanks. I do not think that AI is enough of a risk that we would submit humanity to becoming chattel for you and your bros and your cultural [00:23:00] ideas, because I know that AI isn't going to be just monitoring for AI development.

It's going to be a monitoring to make sure everybody follows your little cultural subset. And it's a horrifying vision for the future that they really have. And so they have to occlude. A vision of the future from their people.

And then people some of the like theocrats that they think our vision for the future is horrifying.

Cause they're like, what? Like you are pro like gene alteration. You are pro like AI development. You are pro human machine interface. And it's yeah yeah you are pro, A wizard genetics, making allowing people we wouldn't be doing this ourselves, but I am not against the idea.

And I know that, technology is coming down the pipeline to do things like given elephants essentially the types of neural density that humans have and that would allow them to, be a completely new type of sentient entity that could interact with the world in completely new ways and thinking completely new ways.

That would be as orthogonal to us as maybe AI is. I know you wouldn't

Simone Collins: do that because you're not a big fan of elements. [00:24:00]

Malcolm Collins: No, I don't really like elephants that much, but whether you're talking dolphins or dogs or something like that,

If your response to this is, well, I haven't heard of us being close to that kind of technology, my question would be, if there was a group that was close to this kind of technology and they made it public, would they be shut down? That being the case, the fact that you haven't heard about any group being close to this level of technology means nothing about our actual proximity to this level of technology.

In fact, the only people who would know are people with a large public profile and who could be actively useful to the type of person working on this.

Malcolm Collins: I think that the world of intelligence is about to get a lot bigger.

It's not just human and AI's in the future or human AI's. It's going to be a lot of things out there. And that we will create our own aliens before we run into other aliens, I suspect. And by that, what I mean is very alien intelligences, maybe even reviving some extinct branches of man, Neanderthals, stuff like that, and they're like, Oh, this is horrifying. What do [00:25:00] they really mean? Like, why is it horrifying? Because different things will exist in the future. I think there's this one inclination in the heart of man that fears this. Change, and they want everything to stay the same and I get that I understand the fear of radical change in society.

And can we adapt to it? And what differentiates us from them is our answer is a resounding. Yes. Humanity can adapt. Humanity can overcome anything. I believe in the boundless potentiality of man and where we're going as a species. And I have no fear for what man can accomplish when he joins together.

And sets his differences aside to create a genuinely better future because from my perspective, we already live in a utopia when I contrast the world we live in today was the world of 150 years ago was the world of, and I look at the world it was a utopia compared to the world.

500 years ago. I'll read the quote from the martyrdom of man. This book that was written 200 years ago, right?

And as for ourselves, [00:26:00] if we are sometimes inclined to regret that our lot is cast in these unhappy days, let us remember how much more fortunate we are than those who lived before us a few centuries ago. The working man enjoys more luxuries today England in the Anglo Saxon times, and at his command our intellectual delights, which but a little while ago the most learned in the land could not obtain.

All this we owe the labors of other men. Let us therefore remember them with gratitude. Let us follow their glorious example by adding something new to the knowledge of mankind. Let us pay to the future the debt which we owe the past.

Malcolm Collins: And he's saying, Yeah, we basically live in a utopia today when contrasted with the old Anglo Saxon kings. Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. Appreciate it. And when I look at the sort of march of history, I don't fear the future and I think that's required to be within this movement.

You have to believe that things are getting better to want so vociferously for humanity to continue. And for those who [00:27:00] say there

Simone Collins: are a lot of prenatalists out there who don't hold this view there are a lot of people who call themselves prenatalists who have these like a lot of fears who are, we don't consider them prenatalists.

These people are typically racial supremacists or religious groups that are against abortion, but they're not actually

Malcolm Collins: religious groups that want their religion to win. They're like, yeah, I want more Catholics. I want more, but that's

Simone Collins: not about pronatalism. That's about Catholicism or that's about whatever ethnic group is being, it is

Malcolm Collins: all super natalism.

The existing world architecture, no, it's soft and

Simone Collins: prenatalism for their group only.

Malcolm Collins: for their group only, pronatalism and conversion, right? And so you see this like a great example of one of these individuals would be someone like Lyman Stone, where, he's nominally a pronatalist, but it's really about promoting Christian ideology.

And we see them as being allies to the, non denominational pronatalism movement, which is what you mean when you say really pronatalism is their core goal. This [00:28:00] Pluralistic, non denominational, non ethnocentric non cul single cultural centric high fertility rate, which is what makes this, when she says, not pronatalism, it's what makes it not pronatalism, because there is another

Simone Collins: value

Malcolm Collins: system

Simone Collins: above

Malcolm Collins: pronatalism.

Yeah. It's another value system, which pronatalism is serving. So they're not our enemies in any way. They are our friends. They are working with the pronatalist movement, but they have a different end agenda. And as such I, I understand what you're saying. So this is what we mean when we're saying prenatal, but also within these communities, there also is like that when they are in the pronatalist spaces, because they are often working with people from many different perspectives, they get along so well.

Oh yeah. So

Simone Collins: yeah, there is. We, and we talk about this, there is this period of detente now where we have a common enemy that is trying to, erase our unique cultures. There could be a point at which some of these groups decide, okay, now we're in a stronger position and we're going to try to force everyone to be like us.

At that point, then there will be conflict between these groups. But for [00:29:00] now basically, as long as all of these groups are not the dominating culture, they are, they get along really well. Yeah.

Malcolm Collins: Yeah. And keep in mind, like when we're talking about Like leaning into genetic stuff and stuff like why does that lead to such a positive perspective?

Because we think that these developments, these continued technological perspectives, so long as we can resist their temptation, so long as we can walk through the valley of the lotus eaters, we say this time it's a trial of the lotus eaters, all of these technologies, Elon Musk tweeted recently that, we'll be able to, our kids will be able to have AI wives that are like better than any human you could have today and more caring and loving and you complete sensory environment.

How do you motivate somebody? To play this civilizational game when that's the alternative, they have to have an intense belief, like fundamental belief. In the future of the human species and the only other alternative is the fire and brimstone approach, which is to say, we need to go back to the old ways.

We need to, but this fire and brimstone approach when it is practiced in this context also isn't very optimistic, this idea that technology destroys everything. Every [00:30:00] generation is getting worse. We are in eroding society from some past greatness. That belief system, of course, also isn't very optimistic.

And so it intrinsically doesn't lead to we don't choose these things because we are we decided to choose the most optimistic path. I think it's the most logical path. When I look at humanity's history, I think humanity's history is one of optimism. We have achieved. So much of the species, I always replay the the Civ songs and stuff like that, that we see as our songs.

And I'll link to them or put little bits.

You're plotting a new course again, aren't you? The currents before us are ever changing. We must adapt and press forward if we are to see our journey's end.

It is the nature of humankind to push itself toward the horizon. We

test our limits.[00:31:00]

We face our fears. We rise to the challenge. And become something greater than ourselves.

Malcolm Collins: People should definitely check them out, but I see them as being like the songs of the movement, not just our songs as a relationship, but like this idea of intergenerational improvement and march of civilization. And yeah, sometimes we have setbacks. Yeah.

Sometimes we have conflicts. But there is something beyond our civilization as we understand it now, that's going to be. As incomprehensible to us as the civilization we have built is to someone, just 200, 300 years ago.

Simone Collins: Yeah. And I think it's, I'm glad you highlighted this. I think it's nice for people to know that there are causes out there that are not stressful because most causes I would say.

Are, but because most causes have to be coercive in order to win the by coercive. Like you have to get people who are not on board and not okay with it [00:32:00] to be okay with it on board before you can win. So for those who would like a non stressful fun, optimistic cause. Consider joining us and this is something

Malcolm Collins: you see all the time.

If you look at the pronatalist subreddit or the antinatalist subreddit, the antinatalist constantly brigade the pronatalist subreddit, like saying mean things, saying angry things against them. The pro it's every third post, the pronatalist never brigade the antinatalist subreddit. Because there's no point that again, they're not part of the conversation.

Simone Collins: They literally do not matter.

Malcolm Collins: And I would appreciate, our fans, people in the movement, Don't go and attack the people who are different from you. There's no point. Don't, no point. Let's keep the positivity of this movement going. I'm so happy that,.

Is getting all this attention right now. He got retweeted from the conference by Elon. He's got 8. 3 million views on that. He's getting all sorts of interest. And it's just so exciting for me because, even though he's in this religious faction of the movement, I like that side is getting traction as well.

This is religion. We desperately need religion. [00:33:00] We do. And I like Mormonism, I'm glad that the leading individual in the religious faction is a Mormon. One of the most aligned iterations of a religion was this movement. I'm just so excited for what's happening for him and all, The positivity, even people like us and him who potentially see the world so differently can work together like this.

Simone Collins: Yeah.

Malcolm Collins: Anyway, I love you, Simone. I love the positivity you bring to my life.

Simone Collins: You are the son of positivity in this universe, but I love you.